Jobs and Classes: Ratios.

[AmyRae]

"i am going to ignore obvious indicators to the contrary of my preferred assumption because it undermines my position, and try to make the argument quantitative rather than qualitative/specific"

keep flailing about to justify your completely off-kilter assumptions. keep refusing to acknowledge clear evidence opposed to your position/agenda because it's merely 'inconvenient' and couldn't possibly hold any weight. anything to feel justified, correct, and entitled- anything to preserve your misguided sense of outrage.

and don't try to play the deflect/project/shed the spotlight game. i have no stake in this. i have both at 50 and look forward to trying both jobs. i just find *your* delusion (and that of those taking a similar position) both humorous and... mindblowing.

blackmage with raise 2 and rebirth... lollllllllllllll

I don't really care about the subject. I just think how you treat others who don't agree with your preconceptions is ridiculous (and deserves to be mocked).

There were plenty of indications that conjurers could have been black mages; it wasn't as obvious as you try to make it sound. There's no reason to be cruel to anyone who had that assumption. It just makes you look like an ass.

[Ruinaru]

I think a 2:1 class:job system could be very interesting. Let each class have its own job and a job it shares with another class.

Example:

Conjurer - White Mage (req. CON30 + THM15)
> Red Mage (req. CON30 + THM30)
Thaumaturge - Black Mage (req. THM30 + CON15)

Once you've met the requirements for Red Mage (CON30 and THM30), and completed the proper quest, you can equip the Red Mage Job Stone on either Conjurer or Thaumaturge. By doing this, you can choose to be a Red Mage which uses a wand and leans more towards Healing/Buffing Magic, or one which uses a Staff and leans more towards Nuking/Debuffing Magic.

Now, there might be a better choice than Red Mage for this example, since it doesn't provide Red Mage with a Sword or other melee weapon, but this is just to illustrate my vision.

Another example could be

Gladiator - Paladin
> Berserker
Marauder - Warrior

A Gladiator Berserker would use a Sword and Shield and have more defensive capabilties, whereas a Marauder Berserker would use a Great Axe and focus on an all-out offensive.

Again, these are just examples to illustrate a point. I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the actual classes suited for each combo.

And who's to say each class couldn't branch off even further? Each could have one "Basic" job and two "Advanced" jobs.

Rogue - Ninja
>Thief
Gladiator - Paladin
>Berserker
Marauder - Warrior
>Dark Knight
Lancer - Dragoon
>Samurai
Pugilist - Monk
>Dancer
Archer - Bard
>Ranger
Musketeer - Cannoneer
>Gun Mage
Thaumaturge - Black Mage
>Red Mage
Conjurer - White Mage
>Summoner
Tamer - Beastmaster
>Geomancer
Arcanist - Time Mage
>Blue Mage
Rogue - Ninja

And they wouldn't all have to be linked like that. There could be several smaller rings of connected jobs. Obviously that's a lot of jobs and classes to balance, and it would take a long time for it to get that fleshed out, but I think it could be really cool.

[MartaDemireux]

lotta stuff

Yeah they could go a lot of routes with some jobs like Red Mage. They could make a GLA(or maybe FNC when it's released?)/THM/CNJ all be requirements and then allow the stone to be equipped on each so then you have your melee RDM, your offensive RDM and defensive RDM. I hope they don't just keep it as a 1 or even 2 jobs per class but I guess we just have to wait and see.

I'm currently replaying FFTA2 and it kind of just smacked me in the face that a lot of the jobs in that game are pretty similar. Makes me wonder if they're doing the same thing here. I'll take the bow users for example. Each race has a different use of them essentially. In total you have Archer, Hunter, Sniper, Ranger and Assassin (might have missed one).

Each one of those plays a different role and each one has different weapons:
Archer > Bows
Hunter > Greatbows & Knives
Ranger > Bows & Knives
Sniper > Greatbows
Assassin > Greatbows & Katanas

That said, they could apply the same mechanic to future ARC related jobs. They could make ... IDK Ronin or something as the Samurai class (they confirmed Katanas will come). Level ARC and RON to get Assassin. Get some ranged abilities if you use ARC>ASN or get some close ranged abilities for RON>ASN. They could even be the same abilities but the weapon effects them differently, like a bow might give lower damage output for a higher chance to land the debuff associated with the ability (PIE is on bows afterall) while the katana could give higher damage output while giving a slightly lower chance to inflict the debuff. Just an idea that I really hope gets implemented. Would lead to a lot of diversification while maintaining the basic structure of each job/class.

[ssppiikkeeyy]

i hope theres no double ups on jobs like that since you can only be one job/class at a time. i think that would over complicate things for SE, since changing to job's will only take a item and some quest, i rather spend more time questing than grinding everything just to open a job and when we get a new level cap will have to grind every class again and buy new equip all over for every job. the less time i have to grind the more content i can do.

archer -> musketeer
archer -> bard
archer -> thief





thats fine since we need a item anyways to change to that job and go on its own quest line.

i think LNC = THF better just from what i seem of archer and lancer.

[grandm]

just about redmage. with PUG now being elemental/magical that would be a perfect melee/magic user = redmage. although PUGs weapon is not very redmage like, but that is the only thing stopping me putting my life saving on PUg for redmage

[Bowen]

"i am going to ignore obvious indicators to the contrary of my preferred assumption because it undermines my position, and try to make the argument quantitative rather than qualitative/specific"

keep flailing about to justify your completely off-kilter assumptions. keep refusing to acknowledge clear evidence opposed to your position/agenda because it's merely 'inconvenient' and couldn't possibly hold any weight. anything to feel justified, correct, and entitled- anything to preserve your misguided sense of outrage.

and don't try to play the deflect/project/shed the spotlight game. i have no stake in this. i have both at 50 and look forward to trying both jobs. i just find *your* delusion (and that of those taking a similar position) both humorous and... mindblowing.

blackmage with raise 2 and rebirth... lollllllllllllll

If I may, I was one of the people that thought that CNJ was going to be BLM.
And while that might not have been true, there are still many reasons why CNJ would make sense as BLM and THM would make sense as WHM.
For one, according to the original lore, THM were priests and althought the ones in the guild that we join are rather. . . obssessed with the darker sides of magics, the other temple in Ul'dah was dedicated to life and the preservation of it.
CNJs on the other hand, were masters of all six elemental magics. Traditionally, in final fantasy, Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder were all Black Magic spells, with Quake (Stone), Tornado (Aero), and Flood (Water) all being special cases. (Aero being the only canon white magic out of the three)
And since many of us came from FFXI, were all of these were Black Magic spells, how could you not expect us to interpret CNJ as BLM on first impressions.
Yes, CNJ had Cure and other White Magic spells, but they could have easily given those spells to THM and let CNJs keep their elemental nukes to keep their lore intact while still keeping THMs lore relitively the same.
This argument is pointless however, so there is no need for this insulting and arguing.

[Bowen]

just about redmage. with PUG now being elemental/magical that would be a perfect melee/magic user = redmage. although PUGs weapon is not very redmage like, but that is the only thing stopping me putting my life saving on PUg for redmage

Honestly at this point I am hoping this is how the jobs and classes will be from now on.

Here is what I'd like to see (in the order of appearance)

• Arcanist [Class] master of Enfeebling and Enhancing Magic >> Time Mage [Job] Advanced Enfeebling/Enhancing Magic.
• Scout [Class] Twin Daggers >> Thief [Job] Heavy Damage Spike and enfeebling attacks, stealing.
• Musketeer (Chemist) [Class] uses Guns, has bonus to Item use >> Gambler [Job] Random attacks/buffs, Dice and Cards.
• Tamer [Class] uses Whips and can tame Pets to fight >> Beastmaster [Job] Can tame monsters to use as mounts in battle. (see Yoshi's 2nd Youtube Video)
• Evoker [Class] - Master of elemental spirits >> Summoner [Job]- Summons lesser Avatars (ie Carbuncle, Fenrir, Valefor,..) to fight alongside, and can also summon Primals like Ifrit. (obviously within the framework of Player Companies that Yoshi suggested)

Beyond this, new jobs should require a mixture of classes. There are many fantastic possibilities here:

Gladiator + Thaumaturge = Red Mage [Job] Rapier
Marauder + Arcanist = Dark Knight [Job] Scythe
Musketeer + Thaumaturge = Gun Mage [Job] Gunblade
Tamer + Conjurer = Blue Mage [Job] Scimitar
Scout + Tamer = Dancer [Job] Fans
Conjurer + Evoker = Geomancer [Job] Bell
Archer + Scout = Ninja [Job] Katana
Lancer + Gladiator = Samurai [Job] Great Katana

I swear if BST -> SMN I will be very angry.

[grandm]

If I may, I was one of the people that thought that CNJ was going to be BLM.
And while that might not have been true, there are still many reasons why CNJ would make sense as BLM and THM would make sense as WHM.
For one, according to the original lore, THM were priests and althought the ones in the guild that we join are rather. . . obssessed with the darker sides of magics, the other temple in Ul'dah was dedicated to life and the preservation of it.
CNJs on the other hand, were masters of all six elemental magics. Traditionally, in final fantasy, Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder were all Black Magic spells, with Quake (Stone), Tornado (Aero), and Flood (Water) all being special cases. (Aero being the only canon white magic out of the three)
And since many of us came from FFXI, were all of these were Black Magic spells, how could you not expect us to interpret CNJ as BLM on first impressions.
Yes, CNJ had Cure and other White Magic spells, but they could have easily given those spells to THM and let CNJs keep their elemental nukes to keep their lore intact while still keeping THMs lore relitively the same.
This argument is pointless however, so there is no need for this insulting and arguing.

it was not a stupid thought to think CON would be BLM, the evidence was very supportive. but SE did it this way and CON got WHM and guess what, its not stupid and it makes sense. the fact is it could have gone either way.

it is very wrong for some1 to get all high and mighty for being right about something that only had 2 outcomes when the odds were 50/50. it could have gone either way :P

for the record i was with bowen. i thought it would be the other way round

[Bowen]

it was not a stupid thought to think CON would be BLM, the evidence was very supportive. but SE did it this way and CON got WHM and guess what, its not stupid and it makes sense. the fact is it could have gone either way.

it is very wrong for some1 to get all high and mighty for being right about something that only had 2 outcomes when the odds were 50/50. it could have gone either way :P

for the record i was with bowen. i thought it would be the other way round

Oh good, I thought for the majority of that post that you thought I meant that I thought CNJ -> WHM was stupid.

[grandm]

Oh good, I thought for the majority of that post that you thought I meant that I thought CNJ -> WHM was stupid.

wouldn't have mattered what way round you thought it. neither was a stupid guess both had good reasons for being either BLM or WHM. only one could be tho