Would PvP destroy the camaraderie of FFXIV

[Randis]

I would like PvP, its fun. However, i don't want it in some form of a sport-game or capture the flag BS.
PvP would work just fine, it does not even has to be in a restricted area.
People could simply send each other a duel request and fight only if both confirm.

[gifthorse]

I don't think there's much discussion to be had, open world PvP WILL destroy the social culture of FFXIV. It's certainly what ruined Aion for me. Imagine if you will going out on a leve and having a group of 50's camping the spot they know you need and PKing everyone who tries to come by. Imagine going out to gather and having someone come up from behind and kill you while you're mining. People can and will do these kinds of things often with an open PVP world, I saw it with Aion and it'd happen again with FFXIV.

Aion didn't have a very good system in place. Realm vs Realm PvP never bodes well for players since Pking is encouraged under that system. Games that flag players as PKers such as Ultima Online and Lineage function better by discriminating against PKers rather than encouraging it.

Also, OWPvP servers and consentual PvP servers are always a possibility to segregate those who would be up for it and those who wouldn't.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I think you guys fail to understand what the topic is about...
The guy is saying if we play right, even open world pvo don't have to be bad.

To op
The only flaw with this issue is No one feels that way anymore. I tried to tell ppl red=dead was a fairly newish concept. Brought in from fps games. And ppl just let ppl get ganked and laugh. Aion has the worst of it. You ask for help in Aion and your called carebear, told to quit, told learn2pvp. No one helps out anymore. I was playing DCUO and the lvl 7-10 mission areas are heavily camped. I got told to move to other places... but no where to go. Idm pvp or pvp death. It all the same to me.

a pk system is good if the players don;t go over board and get cocky. Or stop refusing to help cuz they feel getting ganked ton of times help you learn.

The iron realms mud I played have open world pvp. But there are also rules. You can walk in enemy towns as long as you obey the laws. ganking newbies was bannable.

ppl feel there should be no rules to pvp.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Aion didn't have a very good system in place. Realm vs Realm PvP never bodes well for players since Pking is encouraged under that system. Games that flag players as PKers such as Ultima Online and Lineage function better by discriminating against PKers rather than encouraging it.

Also, OWPvP servers and consentual PvP servers are always a possibility to segregate those who would be up for it and those who wouldn't.

Last I played Aion it wasn't realm vs realm. And they did have markers. PPl just like to gank ppl.

pvp changed since the fps crowd started playing mmo. "hardcore" pvp players feel there shouldn't be rules for pvp. Its red=dead. And thats it.

open world pk can work just need to be strick with it. And have rules. Making it so ganking lownies/newbies is a bad thing and you will be punished for doing so. Or that pking ppl just to harasse them is a bannable offence. There is nothing wrong with a pk system Just how it gets implimented is key.

[Kaedan]

With the glut of PvP MMOs out there at the moment, FFXIV is filling a very important niche. Any direction you look you can find an MMO with open world PvP... but it's a lot harder to find a pure PvE MMO.

I think everyone would be fine with a competitive sport-type PvP like Ballista in FFXI. But once you start talking about Arenas, there's where a large split forms. And whether or not that split happens depends upon how the arena is implemented.

If the Arena is implemented in a way that PvP skills and balance are kept separate from PvE, then that works fine. Essentially, once you enter an Arena area, you change to "PvP mode". The way your skills and powers interact with other players changes. But once you leave, it reverts back to "normal". This way, PvP never negatively effects PvE, and I believe most people would be fine with this.

It's when there isn't any separation between PvP and PvE that things get nasty. PvPers b**** and moan that "so and so is OP" and start demanding class changes to "balance" the PvP. And that inevitably negatively effects PvE as well.

Which brings us to Open world PvP. You will never see it in FFXI or FFXIV. Why? Because it doesn't make sense for the MMO. The concept is cooperation and teamwork to fight against the greater forces of evil seeking to destroy/oppress. You can't have cooperation and teamwork if everyone is constantly ganking each other. And while the races have their prejudices and dislikes of one another, they are not openly hostile to one another and there aren't any current wars. It just wouldn't make sense.

[Kaedan]

I would like PvP, its fun. However, i don't want it in some form of a sport-game or capture the flag BS.
PvP would work just fine, it does not even has to be in a restricted area.
People could simply send each other a duel request and fight only if both confirm.

That's a duel system... not really PvP in a stricter sense of the definition. Again, that would probably be something that most people wouldn't have a problem with. You'd still get the "so and so is OP" complaints, but since there would be no tangible rewards for dueling, there would be no need to change anything.

Which does bring up another thing. If there was a separate PvP system, of course the PvPers would be demanding rewards for PvP. This happened in DCUO, where PvP is supposed to be 'just for the fun of it', but people started demanding rewards. So if they added separate PvP, they would have to add separate PvP gear as well... so that those who don't want to PvP aren't required to.

[Rentahamster]

World PvP: No

Areana PvP: Yes

That's all they gotta do. They don't even have to try and balance it at first. Leave the skills as is and devote resources to fixing the rest of the game. Let the players all kill each other a few thousand times and collect data to see which classes and skill combos are the most overpowered, then act accordingly.

[gifthorse]

Which brings us to Open world PvP. You will never see it in FFXI or FFXIV. Why? Because it doesn't make sense for the MMO. The concept is cooperation and teamwork to fight against the greater forces of evil seeking to destroy/oppress. You can't have cooperation and teamwork if everyone is constantly ganking each other. And while the races have their prejudices and dislikes of one another, they are not openly hostile to one another and there aren't any current wars. It just wouldn't make sense.

Or so you think. It's perfectly possible to have a cooperative and teamwork-oriented game even in the face of open world PvP, especially if the MMO has systems in place to punish senseless Pkers. It's about finding a good balance. Many game-improving systems only work on the basis of PvP. For example, player-built cities can't really function without including possible destruction of said housing. Ubran sprawl becomes a problem.

Anyways, in case you haven't noticed, there are already NPCs which are the playable races and which are "forces of evil" as you put it: The Garlean Empire, rogues, bandits, pirates, etc. So PvP actually already makes sense within the lore of the game world.

And you don't need a war to have PvP. You don't need a game tellling you what side youre on. You just make the choice yourself of whether you want to kill someone or not. It's called freedom.

Providing there are limiting factors to senseless ganking, there could still be the elements of cooperation and teamwork in FFXIV even if it had OWPvP. In fact, PKers could just be another "force of evil" for players to band against.

The upcoming game ArcheAge has a system where if players rack up enough murder-counts they can be imprisoned in a jail after their capture and are required to do menial jobs until they are released. So in that system, PKing is definitely not encouraged. Also, Pkers aren't allowed access to cities and towns without facing the arm of the law.

Can you imagine how difficult it would be to play FFXIV as a PKer if you weren't allowed access to the 3 main cities without being attacked by guards or other players?

Mortal Online had a system where red-players (Pkers) could be killed by anyone without becoming Pkers themselves. So there was honor in being a anti-PKer and no punishment.

And anyway, there's no reason SE can't open different servers with different rule-sets for both types of players: PvPers and PvEers alike.

[Enrei]

PvP boost camaraderie just as much as PvE does. If you get at tight group of friends pitted against another group of human fighters, they're definitely going to rely on each other just as much, if not more than the average PvE setting.

A sort of, slightly related example: I get along a lot better with some of my friends if we spend an hour or so shooting each other up on Team Fortress 2, since it gives us something to laugh about, rather than scream at in fury...

[Ayerc]

Yes, if done correctly, i.e. restricted open world PvP (invite only or restricted area for PK) or arena style, PvP would most likely improve the overall camaraderie of the game. Though I'm not a fan of PK as it creates the need for more controls of the system, as Gifthorse pointed out in other MMO's Anti-PK strategies.

Friendly competition between players or teams usually binds the participants together, even with a bit of healthy rivalry. Look at a lot of sports and their players to see the proof of this. Sparring is another example, it hones skill through competition with another. Pushing each other to greater achievement creates bonds.

Competition is in our nature and it pushes us to improve. Even in a purely PvE environment, groups still compete for supremacy, be it first to claim a world HNM or beating the record on instanced content.

That said, PvP does become another source of drama, but at least with it, people can actually take out their frustrations with other players, possibly reducing hostilities in the end.