A self-improvement tool is needed in this game, especially for end game

[Dualgunner]

Yet it's still a sound argument.

Let's explore this a bit.

If your argument is:

A misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful. Toxic people will misuse tools. Therefore, toxic people misusing the tool will cause more damage than the tool can help people.

It's valid. If the premises are true, then yes, your conclusion is also true.

It is not, however, sound. You cannot prove the first premise, that a misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful.

[Liam_Harper]

I know YoshiP has this belief that the community should teache one another all the nitty gritty about the game but it's not a realistic view and I feel like putting resources into not just this suggestion but any that requests improvements for halls and battle log transparency could go a long way.

Indeed. The problem isn't players teaching the game to others. Many of us would like to help. The issue lies with players who refuse to accept help or ignore advice.

A minor gate, like a mandatory extended Hall of the Novice, nothing complex, would be targeted at that type of player.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Honestly, I'm not sure that tools like parsers or (an augmented) SSS are really going to address the issue. It's possible that the primary issue is players being unaware of how to properly play their job, but I suspect the real problem is that they simply can't be bothered to care. If it's the latter, tools might not do a lot. I'd welcome them anyway, to be sure, but the fact remains that outside of EX, Savage, or Ultimate content, XIV simply provides little incentive to be a good player.

As an example, the other day, I ran a 24-person Alliance Roulette. We landed on Weeping City of Mhach. Between Forgall and Ozma is that door-looking boss, where each alliance has to activate a platform in order to charge a shield in the middle that protects everyone from an insta-kill mechanic. The insta-wipe move, for those who haven't done the Raid in awhile, has an insanely long charge time - it feels like 30 seconds, even though it's probably closer to 10-15. Either way, it's long - and when the shield is up, it's obvious (giant glowing column and such).

Now despite all this, on this run, I saw a Machinist standing outside the shield. They didn't move to the side platform matching their party. They didn't shift targets to pick on the adds that spawn at one point (though they kept attacking, so I know they weren't AFK). They didn't move to charge the shields. They didn't move within the shield. They just sat there - and finally got one-shotted.

This is not an issue that can be solved by a parser. It's not an issue that can be solved by one-time skill checks like a hypothetically-augmented SSS. This is a player who simply doesn't care, and knows that despite their atrocious performance, they'll get the clear, and all the attendant rewards.

In my mind, this is more likely the root problem. I don't feel like I see incompetent players, so much as I see lazy, selfish players. They're perfectly capable of playing up to a reasonably high standard, they just don't want to bother. A one-time check will push them exactly once, and then they'll go back to doing what they always do: sucking it up and letting others cover for their mistakes. And so long as XIV's Vote Kick system is hamstrung by combat and loot restrictions, so long as replacement times for tanks and healers make even successful kicks not worth the effort, so long as players get the same reward for disparate effort, this situation will keep arising.

----------

With this in mind, what I'd propose - and which SE certainly won't implement - is FATE-style reward tiers for instanced content. This would require a mechanism that measures, in a rough sense, how well a person is executing their job: oGCD usage, rotations, DoT uptime, healing, enmity. It can't be a simple parser, because that would naturally prioritize damage alone, rather than job performance, and would also penalize players significantly for lower-quality gear. Now, supposing such a tool was implemented, a player running an Expert Roulette wouldn't necessarily get the full 90 Tomestones of Genesis. Say their performance was the equivalent of a bronze: they might only get 20% of the base dungeon reward, and 20% of the Roulette bonus. Say that they're running Ridorana, and a Glamour item they want drops, but they got a low performance rating on that fight and were barred from Needing on it.

In this scenario, individuals who suck slow themselves down. Now there's incentive to improve: it saves you a lot of time. Better reward ratios means fewer dungeons to run. It means faster leveling. It means higher likelihoods of getting the rewards you want.

This approach would address both player skill, and player motivation. That's the ticket forward, in my estimation. It's possible that player ignorance is the primary culprit, but from my perspective, I see far more of an issue lurking in the realm of player motivation.

[Vahlnir]

Let's explore this a bit.

If your argument is:

A misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful. Toxic people will misuse tools. Therefore, toxic people misusing the tool will cause more damage than the tool can help people.

It's valid. If the premises are true, then yes, your conclusion is also true.

It is not, however, sound. You cannot prove the first premise, that a misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful.

My experiences from other games (WoW being the biggest one) tell me that the potential for abuse could be quite high. You're right, I don't know that for sure. But judging from what I've seen in the past? Yeah, I'd bet gil on it. People will be people. Always.

[thegreatonemal]

This wouldn't work because openers and rotations change all of the time based on player experimentation. Best thing they could do are things more along the lines of combos, positionals, dot uptime, etc.

They changed based on speed runs or party setups. Openers are the most important thing to learn for endgame content as they set you up for the rest of the fight. And all classes have a general opener to use doesn't need to be the best for every single encounter but it provides a baseline for the lowest players among us to hit.

[Dualgunner]

My experiences from other games (WoW being the biggest one) tell me that the potential for abuse could be quite high. You're right, I don't know that for sure. But judging from what I've seen in the past? Yeah, I'd bet gil on it. People will be people. Always.

Will people abuse it? Yes.

Will enough people abuse it that it outweighs the benefits of having it? I don't know, and you don't either.

[Vahlnir]

Will people abuse it? Yes.

Will enough people abuse it that it outweighs the benefits of having it? I don't know, and you don't either.

Well, we can at least agree on that. Fair enough.

[DevonEllwood]

This does not even need to be a parser. Make it a grade screen at the end of the dungeon with some basic categories like damage taken, cool down used, and an acceptable total percent of damage done. They could even work in bonuses for getting higher grades.

I was thinking something like this would be fine as well. Combine it with something like wanderer's tales and except rng stickers, you get so many points based on your grade. Points could be turned in for prizes (that can't be sold, no market board for you) to give some incentive to get to get higher grades for more points.

[Vahlnir]

I was thinking something like this would be fine as well. Combine it with something like wanderer's tales and except rng stickers, you get so many points based on your grade. Points could be turned in for prizes (that can't be sold, no market board for you) to give some incentive to get to get higher grades for more points.

I...actually like this idea a good bit. The right incentives will get people to do just about anything.

[Slevin_Impudicus]

The way that combat in this game is programmed, everything is choreographed (just call it "Final Fantasy Ballroom Dance Simulator"). A rotation is just a dance routine that everyone is expected to learn (by going outside the game to web tutorials). The only variable left in the normal content is player skill variability within each run. This is like having a team of npcs in a single player game and being dissatisfied with their performance.

Poor team performance makes it more difficult. People have to pick up the slack. I would say "carry", but that now means whoever had least dps, whether or not it was good dps.

In any case, people here are requesting a parser to try to reduce the player skill variability... to make the content easier.

YOU ARE INDIRECTLY REQUESTING A NERF TO ALL NORMAL DUNGEON CONTENT. This is just another "Nerf dungeon XX plz" thread, and quite franky, I'm appalled.

(about 80% sarcasm)