Please nerf butcher's block potency

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

The issue isn't the skills themselves, the issue is the incompetence of some players who won't actually learn how their skills work, and further assume, that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. I've seen all 3 tanks do it at one point or another. I usually play PLD and many of time I've had to pull even though there has been WARs and DRKs in party, too clueless to know they have better aggro gen on pull, but don't fancy wasting the parties time, I'll end up pulling, and not half way through my rotation, will I start seeing my co-tank use their aggro combo repeatedly... whether they dislike me tanking in SwO, or dislike pulling (in which they need to pick up a new job because tanking ain't for them or actually learn how to tank), it is frustrating for it to happen regardless of which tank it is. Usually I'll just shirk them and dps away the rest of the fight, since no matter how much you complain to them or about them, a lot won't be willing to accept advice and improve if they're at 70 doing end game content unless they are looking to actually improve.
But yes changing potency of BB won't have a real affect in any meaningful, you will still get tanks that think they should be in tank stance 100% of the time even as off tank and spamming their aggro combo, this isn't just an issue specific to WAR.

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

I won't offer "fixes," as I think that's a question best answered by reasonable people who main as WAR.

I do wish to add to the list of concerns, however.

I've noticed during NM hunts that if an equally geared and/or skilled WAR really wants to rip the Ace from you, they can pretty much do so at will and never give it back. It's not a big deal when the tank in question is actually competent instead of engaging in drunken tanking and other follies, but I find it worrisome that I as a PLD cannot ever dream of standing even the slightest hope of snatching the Ace back from one.

I'm not saying that WAR should be nerfed. I'm saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

On another note, please, PLEASE do not make us Heavensward Paladins again, SE. I really do not want to relive those days.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Nah, just increase the potency of Storm's Path.

[Izsha]

I've noticed during NM hunts that if an equally geared and/or skilled WAR really wants to rip the Ace from you, they can pretty much do so at will and never give it back. It's not a big deal when the tank in question is actually competent instead of engaging in drunken tanking and other follies, but I find it worrisome that I as a PLD cannot ever dream of standing even the slightest hope of snatching the Ace back from one.

I'm not saying that WAR should be nerfed. I'm saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

On another note, please, PLEASE do not make us Heavensward Paladins again, SE. I really do not want to relive those days.

Few things. Max enmity play is really a wierd thing to care about because the only time that makes any sense is on old hunts. Crapping on damage for overkill enmity in any other scenario makes no sense at all.

2nd, Not really. It entirely depends on the length of the fight. Drk actually has the best enmity in short fights bar none. DAPS is ridonculous and they can spam that until they are out of MP. It also requires no setup/warm up combo like storms eye. Pld actually does the best in long duration fights because FoF lasts forever and there is no need to use any other combo than halone for enmity. Drk eventually runs out of MP for DAPS and either stops doing enmity to regain MP or takes a big hit to enmity generation forever. War needs to refresh eye. War also only has unchained for 20/90 for a 25% damage boost while Pld FoF has the same 25% damage boost but up 25/60. The shorter the fight the better drk is. Longer the fight, more Pld pulls ahead. Neither need to waste 3 gcds and maintain a buff. War fits smack in between requiring a longer warm up, but a larger burst once it gets going with unchained, but then falls right back off.

War's big enmity awesomeness really isnt about creating the MOST enmity possible. It is about making the most enmity while being DPS efficient which is the thing that actually matters for 99.9% of the game. Hunts are a shit show anyway. Any old hunt anyone can cap in a couple actions. New hunts all tanks are more than capable of tanking and it just depends entirely on how long the fight is which no 1 tank has any control over and how much damage you sacrifice for enmity.

As for the OP, players are stupid. Every job has individuals that dont read tool tips and play in horrendously bad ways. That isnt BBs fault by any stretch. Go talk to the darks that dont use darkside or the Plds that dont use either stance. SE cant fix stupid and neither does this suggestion.

[Mirch]

get better gear, git gud

[Thela]

It seems most ppl are missing the point of the OP which is in fact valid. It doesn't matter that the change would be useless in the grand scheme of things, what they are asking for is a clear way for people to see that it's NOT the optimal combo to use for damage. When you look over the tooltips and see it has the highest potency out of all your available combos, it's no wonder someone who may not do a whole lot of research would think it would be the go to combo to use for damage which it clearly isn't. There is absolutely no reason for this "problem" to exist, the other tanks doesn't have a higher potency on their enmity combos, why should WAR's when all it leads to is incorrect usage of people that just picks up the job and plays without doing too much research.

And yes there are plenty of other scenarios where ppl play a job wrong, but that doesn't excuse this one from existing.

[Kabooa]

Dark's used to be higher before the constant SE buffs.

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

Few things. Max enmity play is really a wierd thing to care about because the only time that makes any sense is on old hunts. Crapping on damage for overkill enmity in any other scenario makes no sense at all.

Hi, Izasha! Curiously enough, I did actually specifically refer to NM hunts in my previous post, and we do seem to be on the same page in that regard, so that's a good thing.

At this time, I see no reason to address the remainder of your post because it doesn't really address anything I said nor am I disagreeing with it. Perhaps when you witness hunt groups dropping like flies from Angada's cleaves because that "other" tank who needs to prove their e-peen by hogging the Ace refuses to turn him around, you may understand where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

[Argyle_Darkheart]

It seems most ppl are missing the point of the OP which is in fact valid.

The point is clear enough; it's just a laughable justification for nerfing Butcher's Block.

[Izsha]

Hi, Izasha! Curiously enough, I did actually specifically refer to NM hunts in my previous post, and we do seem to be on the same page in that regard, so that's a good thing.

At this time, I see no reason to address the remainder of your post because it doesn't really address anything I said nor am I disagreeing with it. Perhaps when you witness hunt groups dropping like flies from Angada's cleaves because that "other" tank who needs to prove their e-peen by hogging the Ace refuses to turn him around, you may understand where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

This just asks the 'so what?' question. So youre fighting some scrubby hunt with 50 other people. Every tank is spamming enmity for points. One of them manages to grab more enmity than you. 'So what?'. My point is hunts are both an incredibly small part of the game and one of the least important to consider job balance on. Whm also gets mad cray points because of medica 2 and C3 spam on a party. That doesnt mean we need to nerf C3 or buff sch to maintain hunt balance.

Hunts are one of the poorest litmus tests to hinge "saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

Hunts and enmity shouldnt even be on the to-do list for playtest on tank job enmity any more than whm should be judged based on hunt performance. Hunts are a completely different oddball minigame where the goal has nothing to do with playing intellgently or well. Its an enmity spam fest unattached to anything else in the game.