Few close friends quit FFXIV, one wants to explain why, hopes SE improves the game

[Tint]

I think the fast moving gear spiral causes this strict patch formula. All even and odd numbered patches are the same because we expect and need that standard to upgrade our gear. The resources are tight and we don't really want to lose out on our 8 man and 24 man raid and ex trials, and we need some dungeons for tome farming.

When they want to spice up content they need to slow down the gear spiral and go to a more horizontal like gear progression. So they can have patch X.2 and X.3 as usual and then add X.4 with new stuff for example. But then people have to wait longer for a new raid tier and adding more different gear as rewards will not work with our limited substats.

So do you want to wait longer for your raids and / or lose completely out on content?

When you want a new raid tier with higher gear every 6 months, I think the fast moving gear spiral won't go anywhere, with all it's consequences.

[Awful]

SE is staying on the safe side BECAUSE of 1.0. Now if that's good or bad that's up for debate, but I can tell you this. Changing for the sake of change is NOT why they did it back then and they are not going to do it now. There needs to be a reason or better system then " I'm bored."

It's not 1.0 anymore though we're at 4.4 and things have gotten better but as it stands new ideas are starting to be non-existent and content is stagnating because things are too safe we've had the same formula since the end of 2.X. It's the same: raid comes out/4 floors/circular arena/boss growls at % hp to do his ultimate roomwide AoE that has a gauge, rinse and repeat the primals have declined quite a bit since HW and ARR as well does anyone remember when Titan EX was ball bustingly hard? Or Thordan EX? Seph EX flexing on you? Man those were fun and hard same with Nidhogg EX and Sophia having interesting mechanics.

The only hard primal this xpac has been Shinryu and even on normal he's a Godka to the below average player, if you ask me the game has become waaaay too safe even while leveling, mobs hp has been significantly decreased only to steam roll through content. The game has been saved but the Devs and Yoshi P ride this safe roller coaster with no thrills like it's a dead horse on wheels there has been no risk or dynamic change we're still getting tomestones to cap every week, we have the same 4 floors that come out in 4s, same weeklys to do like Crystal Tower/Dun Scaith etc, same crafted gear out every tier, it doesn't and hasn't changed and frankly everyone's pretty tired at this point.

It's why everyone is disappointed with the lack of content we get stuff like LoV, Lost Canals, Chocobo Racing, Eureka, but it's all meaningless content that doesn't change the game at all or take risks they're like rides at a theme park where it's fun after the first ride then you lose the enjoyment the next go around. I love this game to do death I really do but this expansion is no different than HW but the thing is I enjoyed HW more because it was new then you get to SB and everything looks new but it's the same formula it's still safe why don't we have anything new?

The only new thing I can commend SE on this xpac is the Ultimate fights as they were designed with love and care but sadly most of the population won't set foot in there if content was created more like these fights or poured more resources like they do for Ultimate then we'd see more polish but sadly we're left with unfinished messes that are what they are.

[ko_]

It's not 1.0 anymore though we're at 4.4 and things have gotten better but as it stands new ideas are starting to be non-existent and content is stagnating because things are too safe we've had the same formula since the end of 2.X. It's the same: raid comes out/4 floors/circular arena/boss growls at % hp to do his ultimate roomwide AoE that has a gauge, rinse and repeat the primals have declined quite a bit since HW and ARR as well does anyone remember when Titan EX was ball bustingly hard? Or Thordan EX? Seph EX flexing on you? Man those were fun and hard same with Nidhogg EX and Sophia having interesting mechanics.

The only hard primal this xpac has been Shinryu and even on normal he's a Godka to the below average player, if you ask me the game has become waaaay too safe even while leveling, mobs hp has been significantly decreased only to steam roll through content. The game has been saved but the Devs and Yoshi P ride this safe roller coaster with no thrills like it's a dead horse on wheels there has been no risk or dynamic change we're still getting tomestones to cap every week, we have the same 4 floors that come out in 4s, same weeklys to do like Crystal Tower/Dun Scaith etc, same crafted gear out every tier, it doesn't and hasn't changed and frankly everyone's pretty tired at this point.

It's why everyone is disappointed with the lack of content we get stuff like LoV, Lost Canals, Chocobo Racing, Eureka, but it's all meaningless content that doesn't change the game at all or take risks they're like rides at a theme park where it's fun after the first ride then you lose the enjoyment the next go around. I love this game to do death I really do but this expansion is no different than HW but the thing is I enjoyed HW more because it was new then you get to SB and everything looks new but it's the same formula it's still safe why don't we have anything new?

The only new thing I can commend SE on this xpac is the Ultimate fights as they were designed with love and care but sadly most of the population won't set foot in there if content was created more like these fights or poured more resources like they do for Ultimate then we'd see more polish but sadly we're left with unfinished messes that are what they are.

Is ther really anything wrong with knowing whats coming? Is that REALLY such a bad thing? I rather know what I'm getting hen not know what's coming and having to guess if it's good or not. But that's a personal thing as I hate suprises 100,000% So me knowing whats coming is a good thing and shows me SE has a stable game. I DO want harder dungeons, and more diffcult content but none of that needs the core to be randomly changed. If all you're worried about is being bored cause you know when a dungeon comes out then I feel like that's small. I rather want good dungeons then be shocked cause dungeons skipped a patch note.

[Gemina]

It IS madness. When a company makes an entertainment product solely for profit, and forgets about the entertainment part, you get the situation we have today for many video games and movies. Profit cannot be the sole motivator for all forms of business because that's not how all business fields work. Imagine if cars were sold to you piecemeal and come with microtransactions like they are with video games.

Have you ever heard of aftermarket sales? The MSRP on just about any car you search into will be the basic package of the vehicle and have next to no gimmicks that separate it from any other standard package out there.

Profit is exactly how businesses work, otherwise you don't have a business. However, it is not an excuse for poor quality because people want what they pay for at the very least. Delivering less is not how you remain marketable. I agree that it should not be the sole motivator, but if I owned a business, my profit margins are going to be a big point of emphasis.

[Cylla]

While for replay value any game can become boring and if the person feels it's not worth their time to play the game again for whatever reason then they don't and so there's no replay value which seems to be with which he said the basis of this thread there's nothing news of his no replay value. I myself have the different times found myself bored in the game and so I just turn it off but then I keep going back because I like being in the game and I like doing stuff in the game. If I really wanna be bored I can play WoW, world quests over and over again and they're not even as lucrative as they used to be :-(

And to each other own opinion when it comes to WoW. I find WoW to be more entertaining at the moment then this. However, as I said earlier in this thread to another poster who commented about how Yoshi said he wanted us to play other games and come back to this one when there is new content, I can't. I'm held hostage by the housing system. It not worth me going to WoW for 30 days then coming back to this one where it still boring. There no use in me keeping an active sub here when housing is not connected to just having an active sub. If I want to take a break from a game, I want to take it for more then just 45 days. In the case of XIV, I'd rather just come back for a major patch update, play it and if there no replay to it/people don't want to touch it (aka pogos) then I take another break. But nope, this game so broken and punishing that having a house almost feels like SE having a gun to your head. You either stay or lose a piece of content you worked for.

To be honest, I really did want to love this game as much as XI. I've tried to since 1.0 and 2.0. I'm finding it harder and harder everyday to even do so. To me, the game broken in nearly ever part. Everything from the casual content to the mid-core (I don't raid anymore so I can't say how the raiding is). It sad when again, a 16 year game is still doing it better. XI still and seem to be the only game that I can say I ever really enjoyed and had everything I wanted as a gamer. No other game, not even WoW could replace that and SE sure isn't trying very hard either with XIV.

[Dragoon4life]

I blame Pagos

[Gemina]

To chime in, I'm one of the players that doesn't mind the treadmill we're on. When I started my SB crafting, I was able to anticipate which mats I needed to hoard based off my experience in HW, and it most certainly paid off. Koppernickel sand? Yeah, just go ahead and gather x999 of that right now!

I do have some issues with the game, but they are relatively minor QoL adjustments that would hardly impact the game. My biggest desires to change things up is the addition of Beastmaster DoL class to facilitate mat acquisition from enemies while having fun doing it. The other being our first Healer/ranged melee hybrid in DNC.

To be fair though, I know if I was at endgame with all jobs maxed out, waiting for the next patch to drop because I am done with the things I enjoy most, I would likely start feeling burned out as well. Thing is, SE would have to deliver content less frequently for this to happen. Because I am an omnicrafter, gatherer, home decorator, and don't have a goal of having a maxed out character, I just won't ever catch up. But I am ok with that, and a big reason why is I am never bored playing this game. If something starts becoming stale or trite, I simply pick one of many, many other activities I am into and progressing.

I love this game and our community. I do want everyone to be happy and to remain subbed. So I do hope SE can deliver to those who desire change without messing up things for players like myself.

[Tracewood]

There needs to be a shake up.

Eliminate 8 and 24 man raids and replace it with a 12 man dungeon raid. Ditch the loot penalty for skipping a tier and wanting to help others despite completing. Just lock loot for THAT PERSON ONLY if the finished. Savage only, not normal mode.

Frontline and Expert Roulette should allow same gear item level. Introduce a new type of PVP currency and just weekly cap that like tomes.

Eureka and Diadem... this is tough, since they'll become dated content. Make it to where we can take squadrons and introduce mini trials that award exp every x amount of enemies we kill. Fix NM spawn rates so they can spawn a little faster and drop light quicker. Toss in some hunt marks in there as well as level sync.

No more gating crafters and gatherers behind story, create side stories in new areas so they're not forced to leveling a DoW/M class from 5.0 on out.

[Edax]

Have you ever heard of aftermarket sales? The MSRP on just about any car you search into will be the basic package of the vehicle and have next to no gimmicks that separate it from any other standard package out there.

Profit is exactly how businesses work, otherwise you don't have a business. However, it is not an excuse for poor quality because people want what they pay for at the very least. Delivering less is not how you remain marketable. I agree that it should not be the sole motivator, but if I owned a business, my profit margins are going to be a big point of emphasis.

I agree that profit is important. However, many business defeat their own purposes by entirely devoted themselves entirely to profit. Like EA making Battlefront II, fill with so many methods to harvest money from players, that they forgot to make the game enjoyable or entertaining. This defeated the point of making an entertainment product. Or the DCEU, which forgot to make the movies entertaining because each movie felt both like a commercial for a future DCEU movie, and an attempt to ape the markets more popular movies. Or an insurance company that does everything it can to not payout legit claims, which defeats the purpose of even owning insurance in the first place. These businesses are profiting while failing to provide any service or utility to society. Or take that restaurant in China I read about that realized it could increase its profits by utilizing their local graveyard as an untapped resource. Is it "good business" or madness?

[Hamada]

Game doesn't look very dead to me.

EDIT: Also, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a piece of hardware to an MMO. Just my opinion though.

How did you come up with the conclusion I was comparing a piece of hardware to an MMO? Ko was flat out saying it is bad to innovate if you keep failing, well there is other situations that suggest otherwise, including:

Have we forgotten how big of a risk FFXIV:ARR was for Square as a whole? Revamping an entire MMO isn't exactly the safest path to ever take in any business sense so why are we so against the company trying new things to further carve out XIV's name in MMO history? From your post history so far it seems you have the notion associated with the famous quote "Everything that can be invented has been invented." To think that everything we have is fine because it works is folly and will eventually be overshadowed by those who aren't content to just leave things be. FFXIV should be pushing itself to further expand on its content and not just reskin them. Whatever Ultimate got in terms of Design Philosophy is what we need, building upon systems to make whats old feel fresh again.

Such concepts is not limited to hardware or software but life it self and pretty much everything. I am not sure why you tried to suggest this is not relevant. Everything and anything (hence why animals that do not adapt to changes to environments die off) fade into history. If you want to bet that FFXIV will be the first exception in history to this, well that is a bet I will not make.

I think the point is to do something before that happens, honey. Compared to when the game first launched, I've seen a steady decrease in player population. Plus, as an anecdote, most of my friends have quit playing as well, and they too had similar complaints about the game. Hiding your head under the ground and pretending everything is alright is not going to do anyone any favors.

You are correct.

Changing for the sake of change is NOT why they did it back then and they are not going to do it now. There needs to be a reason or better system then " I'm bored."

You are oversimplifying what people are saying to make a light attempt to mock those ideas. I do not like it and I find it insulting. Please respect people and actually respond to what people are saying. If all you are going to do is post your biased views and not actually respond to people why are you even here? You are not going to change people's minds, you clearly wont change yours. How you do not see SB is a COMPLETE COPY of HW is beyond me. SB is HW with a higher ilevel, that is all, there is no "small changes" there is NO CHANGES! that is part of the reason why the game feels overall simpler, because everything in SB, people seen already, and easier to pick up on the small different mechanics here and there. Ever play weeping city of mhach on day 1? What about The Ridorana Lighthouse? Pugs made The Ridorana Lighthouse like a joke compared to "wiping city" (it has this name for a reason) esp when you compare both on their day 1s.

When you try circle this into "Tell me what SE should do then" that has been answered. All the information you want from me and my friend has already been posted but just like SE, just like SE's reaction the first eureka's suggestions hoping they would be in place for the second, level sync is a big one, just get ignored.

Now tell me, since you want to defend these practices, explain to me why SE COMPLETELY ignored the player base for improving eureka to make the second release better? You want to know the prime reason it failed? THAT'S WHY. People are not asking for change just for the sake of change, get that out of your head and truly try to understand what people are saying, then maybe we can have a meaningful conversation.

I think you need improving your analytical ability. it feels like you do not take a step back and think what it is said, and rush out to make a post. Look up "Power Levels are Stupid [DBG #2] " and it will give you an idea why this current path is not a good one. FFXIV has the same problems as DBZ's concepts of focusing on "power" increases, not other things, and it eventually leads to comparing to what makes a good or bad MMO, something my friend referenced in one of the posts I made for them. Regardless I think it is a good listen for you, as if you truly take the time to think about it, and how to relate it to FFXIV, it is likely to improve your analytical skills.

Is ther really anything wrong with knowing whats coming? Is that REALLY such a bad thing?

YES!!!! it is a VERY BAD thing! It makes things TOO EASY!!! it is boring to know EVERYTHING that is coming. (This holds more true with crafting because it prevents the use of creativity to get an edge on people to try to show success) It makes it glaring there is no point in playing. What is going be the difference of 5.1 to 5.2? same as 4.1 to 4.2, same as 4.2 to 4.3, same as 4.3 to 4.4 same as 3.1 to 3.2, same as 3.2 to 3.3, 10 ilevels why play if all the game is going to be is ilevel creep and nothing else engaging? Maybe I am wrong with saying this but some people like to be challenged mentally, and FFXIV is lacking in that, severely with being predicable in everything.

Here is the next patch, we are going to get a new raid with mechanics we seen before with a weekly limit on a gear that is the same ilevel as the current tome gear not upgraded. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Why bother when the only thing this game does is an endless treadmill for ilevels and makes older content, even from the last patch, even last patch savage (i think that is when they echo the last group and make it "causal" or is that 4.55?)

I DO want harder dungeons, and more diffcult content

On the current path? never happening. It did not happen in HW, it did not happen in SB, 4.4 tried a BIT on mist dragon, but all that did was show people that did not know how to play on a basic level.

I rather want good dungeons then be shocked cause dungeons skipped a patch note.

On the current path of reskining everything? never happening. When you can predict and react to a set script of moves, it can never be challenging because you know what is coming and how to react to it. You seen everything in SB in HW outside a VERY FEW specific mechanics and those have a clue because of the others you did see before. With dungeons like expert and such, ill never be hard because who SE caters to, if you get hit by something, easily healed over. even if you fail the dps check on mist dragon, it is passable having around i360 ilevel you know, the tome gear of 4.3? Something everyone has that has been playing. I do not know how you manage to defend something, where that very system you are defending, makes your request not possible. Repeating the same thing, never ending treadmill is not worth 15 dollars a month + mircotransactions.

So because everything is predictable, there be no "good" dungeon" and they will continue be a push over because you seen all the mechanics the game has to offer, they are simply copy/pasted in a different order.