How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[RiyahArp]

Or the randoms could have a shred of decency and not join content they aren't ready for just expecting the rest of the party to carry them? Just a thought.

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get. There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently. Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

People have lives outside of this game Riyah,

sheesh, this game has the least time-demanding endgame of any mmo out there. Schedule your farms for one night a week for two or three hours; if people can't make it to that, they probably should consider if raiding is what they want to do. Because in other games there would be none of this, you get kicked if you don't show up on time enough. And you make sure you schedule things so people can plan for it. If you consistently need to pug stuff, that's a people failure; you need to talk to the people who aren't showing up and see what's up.

[Zephera]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get.

No we don't. We kick underperformers, not carry them. You can waste time carrying if you want, but if I make a PF I'm going to pick and choose who stays, that's my right as the person who started the group.

[RiyahArp]

No we don't. We kick underperformers, not carry them. You can waste time carrying if you want, but if I make a PF I'm going to pick and choose who stays, that's my right as the person who started the group.

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

Ah, yes. How dare I be a full-time student trying to get a degree

If you have less time to play, scheduling is far more important precisely because you aren't logging on and waiting for pugs or other players and wiping because you have to kick dps. If you can't make a scheduled day consistently because your schedule is that fluid, you probably shouldn't play. Especially if a student, mmos have caused a lot of people to drop out.

I think a lot of the issue here is that there really isn't the social aspect to MMOs that you had in other games, the rules that made it possible to act smoothly. The static/raid fc model would do things like consistently schedule, recruit and train new players, etc. here its just everyone gets together when they want and for what they want and expects to do the hardest content in the game without a hitch. When they can't, they expect the devs to fix it and blame players.

[Ameela]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

PF was made for finding like-minded people to do content with, it's purposefully designed so you can control who gets in your party so you can have the smoothest run possible.
"Less demanding content" is what DF is for, as that's where you're actually not in control of who's in your party.

[HyoMinPark]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

If they're going to underperform or repeatedly wipe the party, they shouldn't join farms in the first place. Because they clearly need to practice something, be it rotation or mechanics, and farm parties are not the place for practice.

[Zephera]

You're wasting time doing runs with randoms, waiting for them to fill your pugs on farm parties and more, and them kicking them when they underperform or wipe you. If the content is hard enough, you're much better off not doing that and not hoping the randoms will be fixed by whatever half-ass measure the devs put out, and instead do it with a static and save PF for less demanding things.

I don't have the time or schedule for a static so PF will have to do. Also, just curious but what do you use PF for? Casual dungeon runs?

What excluding people based on a few results in a third party website that doesn't even need you to sign up to it, your all just proving to me the worst of what I think of this games raiding player base.

How dare people have expectations of others and remove them from groups when they don't meet them. I think you're the toxic one if you're wandering into parties and only giving a mediocre performance instead of your best.

[RiyahArp]

I don't have the time or schedule for a static so PF will have to do. Also, just curious but what do you use PF for? Casual dungeon runs?

if i do hard content, its raid finder for learning and clear if possible, pf for learning and clear otherwise. I can't stand farming, by the time i clear i'm sick of the fight so mounts don't matter to me. Raid finder is better for learning because its limited to one lockout and there's no pressure to turn it into a clear/farm party after, i feel.

Between people having different school, work and irl schedules in general there are a lot of times that someone might be looking for a farm party but not have a full group available to them..

have you ever played any other MMO?

Because if you can't get 8 people on at the same time, there is no "let's pug this" option for any content of any difficulty. You cancel the raid. If your schedules are so different you can't make a raid night, you find a guild or fc who schedules it when you can. This isn't a game where you need to spend 6 hours just to have a chance at a fight; if you all can't be bothered to schedule one night a week at minimum and stick to it, wtf will any of you do if SE decides to make endgame more involved than a boss in a box? There's only so much hard raids can compensate for limited time and reliance on randoms, if you can't use the social tools players used to counter this, there's no way SE will fix this just by adding a parser or gating out the bads. It will wind up being like them getting rid of Feast chat, a ham-handed solution that no one likes.

[Zephera]

have you ever played any other MMO?

Not who you're responding to with this, but difficult content in MMO's can't survive on statics alone these days. Blizzard was going to quit making raids in WoW entirely were it not for the introduction of the LFR system because not enough people were doing them. Statics aren't easy to create or hold together and if you make content that requires a static, you're going to find the amount of people doing the difficult content will be so low it's not worth making content like that anymore.

[HyoMinPark]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get.

This is a sad mindset to have. Why should we have to settle for the healer that can't actually keep a party alive in Suzaku Ex? Or the tank that can't hold aggro on her? Or the DPS that can't do more than 3,000 DPS? Or any party member that dies to every mechanic she has?

There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently.

Ah, yes. How dare I be a full-time student trying to get a degree, and how dare I be unwilling to drop my classes at a moment's notice to farm content outside of scheduled raid times! How dare my other static mates not call out of work to help me farm a mount! How dare they drop their social lives on Friday nights to not help me get a weapon! How dare my friends not log in the second I demand it so we can do Suzaku Ex! How dare I not do that! How dare any of the raiders in this game not do that!

Give me a break, Riyah. You don't have an actual argument here.

Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

Already have a CWLS for this, thank you. Sucks you can only have one though, because I can't invite the other raider friends I have that are in other CWLS already. I also have Discord servers where I can ask for help if a group needs a fill in. But again - this may shock you, Riyah - sometimes people aren't available at the drop of a hat to join a farm party because they have lives outside the game.

If people want to try and improve, the place for that is NOT a farm party. You don't try to learn your 70 rotation in Suzaku Ex. You don't practice an opener in V9S.


I suppose my earlier questions to you were answered: clearly it is a crime to expect competency in farm parties. Clearly it is a crime to expect randoms to know the content and know their rotations, and to not sneak into groups lying about their experience.

sheesh, this game has the least time-demanding endgame of any mmo out there. Schedule your farms for one night a week for two or three hours; if people can't make it to that, they probably should consider if raiding is what they want to do. Because in other games there would be none of this, you get kicked if you don't show up on time enough. And you make sure you schedule things so people can plan for it. If you consistently need to pug stuff, that's a people failure; you need to talk to the people who aren't showing up and see what's up.

My static was meeting 4 days a week when we were progging UwU. We upped that to 5 days some weeks, especially towards the end of 4.3. We've still been putting in extra days since 4.4 launched for both Alphascape and UwU, but we've tried to back off because - wait for it - we have other obligations now where we can't always meet every night to raid! I have class 3 days a week, and Sundays are dedicated to spending time with my family. Some members have work 5 or 6 days a week, come home to raid, go to sleep, and rinse repeat. We were nothing but obligated to our prog, and we still are. This last week we added in the weekends!

The day they pick to farm Suzaku Ex for weapons or mounts I may not be able to join because I have other responsibilities like, I dunno, studying for exams. It's shocking that they may be more important than the game, I know. I farm for dogs when I have the time. That free time may not always match up with my friends or my static mates. So I turn to party finder. But yes, I know, we are all at fault here for not dropping everything for a video game.

My other friends have their own statics that meet, and they may be raiding with them when I want to farm for a dog. Or they may be in school. Or spending time with their families. But that's still somehow our fault, right? Yes, it is the raiders' faults for having other obligations outside of the game. And, as a consequence, they should settle for that RDM who has "seen enrage" but dies to every mechanic. They should settle for the WHM that heals with Medica II only. They should settle for the tank that can't Provoke/Shirk for swaps, or hold aggro. Yes. Clearly.

Again. You don't have an actual argument here.

[Ameela]

You rely on randoms, you take what you can get. There's no way the devs can solve this by adding a parser, because most people who do endgame already use or can easily use them. If you don't like it, don't rely on randoms, and don't raid if "real life issues" make it so you can't show up frequently. Go build a cross server linkshell, or a server fc full of enough competent people that they can cover for the times when real life does intrude. If you try and force a fix through dev means, it's probably going to backfire; it may keep the bads out, but it may also end up keeping the people who would try and improve out too.

Maybe once this game moves away from its archaic looting system for savage that discourages people from participating in a fight after getting their weekly clear with a premade that'd actually work.