Why do the bosses/raids in this game feel so lifeless?

[Bright-Flower]

A key problem I had with the original FFXIII was that bosses just showed up out of nowhere at the end of a section, with no relation to the story or the characters. There wasn't even a reason for the boss to be fighting the characters either, but you'd have to spend the next 30 minutes fighting the thing. FFXIV kind of has this problem to a lesser degree, where the boss shows up merely because the mechanics say there should be a boss there. That's one of the reasons if feels so lifeless, like taking out the garbage every week.

Do you have some examples? Generally dungeon bosses feel like they belong in that environment at least to me. I'll grant that the timing of Susano and Lakshmi in the msq were pretty convenient 'wait we need to have trial fights here' but generally outside of Omega, which by design is just throwing in FF fanservice bosses without context, I don't really see this as an issue.

[Edax]

Do you have some examples? Generally dungeon bosses feel like they belong in that environment at least to me. I'll grant that the timing of Susano and Lakshmi in the msq were pretty convenient 'wait we need to have trial fights here' but generally outside of Omega, which by design is just throwing in FF fanservice bosses without context, I don't really see this as an issue.

Why is there 2 Coeurl O’Nine Tails guarding magiteck terminals in the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak? Aren't they plants who need sunlight?
Why is there a Great Yellow Pelican, Deep Jungle Coeurl in Brayflox's Longstop? Are they guarding the Dragon? If so, why does the Dragon just eat the Hellbender in the middle of the fight?
In Dzemael Darkhold, an army of Voidsent have been sent into the realm, conveniently with 3 random bosses that just sit around far apart from each other waiting for adventures to attack them.
In The Wanderer's Palace, there's a Goobbue and a Flan guarding it as bosses, despite it being a Nymian Palace taking over by Tonberry. Are Tonberry allied with the flan or something?
Snowcloak is Ysayle's hideout, yet it's guarded by an Elemental, an Abominable Snowman and Fenrir. Like why? Did the heretics form an alliance with the Yeti or something? Do the wildlife of Coerthas support the heretic cause?
That's just up to level 50, and I could go on.

[Vidu]

Why is there 2 Coeurl O’Nine Tails guarding magiteck terminals in the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak? Aren't they plants who need sunlight?

Considering that they're carnivorous plants, they probably dont need a lot of sunlight, because they can get their energy from the little animals they eat. Also: If they do need light, wouldnt it make a lot of sense for them to hang around the terminals that emit a certain amount of light, even though they can survive without it (as Rafflesia, the T6-boss, proves - kinda the same species, but according to the lorebook it was burried under soil for quite a while before the Calamity)?

Why is there a Great Yellow Pelican, Deep Jungle Coeurl in Brayflox's Longstop? Are they guarding the Dragon? If so, why does the Dragon just eat the Hellbender in the middle of the fight?

...why wouldnt there be jungle creatures in the jungle?
The dragon is actually in Brayflox to heal its wounds, but I doubt that its in need of employing Coeurls and Pelikans as bodyguards, they're just wildlife that live in that area (look at all the pelicans living in eastern LN).
On eating the Hellbender: The dragon got hungry? Or maybe just annoyed by all the noise those people fighting that thing were making, so he got rid off part of the noise?

In Dzemael Darkhold, an army of Voidsent have been sent into the realm, conveniently with 3 random bosses that just sit around far apart from each other waiting for adventures to attack them.

Well, voidsent arent really the most friendly creatures - so I dont see anything weird about each of them setting up shop in a specific area of the Darkhold, out of the way of the others. After all, they're trying to make a living there as far as I recall - and thats most likely easier when each of them takes a certain part of the dungeon instead of fighting all the time...

In The Wanderer's Palace, there's a Goobbue and a Flan guarding it as bosses, despite it being a Nymian Palace taking over by Tonberry. Are Tonberry allied with the flan or something?

Actually, the Tonberries are citizin of Nym, who have fallen ill - or rather have been cursed. The large amount of Tonberries are sleeping within the Palace, while some research (for example in the Scholar-questlines in HW and SB) are trying to find a cure. They didnt take over the Palace at all - those Tonberries that we fight havent only lost their apperance (Nymians were lalafell), but also their minds. So, with the Citizin of Nym sleeping, wildlife, including Gobbues, who are, again indigenous to this part of Eorzea (we're seeing them only a stone throw away in eastern LN), have taking over the palace. The Flan is a low ranking voidsent, not 100% sure about his buisness there though...

Snowcloak is Ysayle's hideout, yet it's guarded by an Elemental, an Abominable Snowman and Fenrir. Like why? Did the heretics form an alliance with the Yeti or something? Do the wildlife of Coerthas support the heretic cause?
That's just up to level 50, and I could go on.

Well, if I were to hide somewhere, hiding behind a bunch of strong beasts seems like a good idea to me!
The wildlife doesnt need to actively support the heretics cause, they dont need an alliance - all they's need would be a secret passage (or their teleport) to get past the beasts that we have to slaughter. The wildlife can just go about its life without even knowing that the herectis are using it as a shield against any possible intruders.
Fenrir might have been tamed - seeing how we have one as mount and how Fenrir (or rather: hoarhounds, seeing how Fenrir is the name of one of them) pups are being trained/used in the Wolves Den, according to the minion description.


...I'm not saying that there arent weird choices of bosses throughout the game - but the bosses that resemble the actual wildlife of that area actual make a lot of sense to me. But I dont think of them as "guarding" anything, I just think of them living there, minding their own buisness, until we stumble into their living room and start throwing fireballs at them...

[Edax]

Considering that they're carnivorous plants, they probably dont need a lot of sunlight, because they can get their energy from the little animals they eat. Also: If they do need light, wouldnt it make a lot of sense for them to hang around the terminals that emit a certain amount of light, even though they can survive without it (as Rafflesia, the T6-boss, proves - kinda the same species, but according to the lorebook it was burried under soil for quite a while before the Calamity)?

...why wouldnt there be jungle creatures in the jungle?
The dragon is actually in Brayflox to heal its wounds, but I doubt that its in need of employing Coeurls and Pelikans as bodyguards, they're just wildlife that live in that area (look at all the pelicans living in eastern LN).
On eating the Hellbender: The dragon got hungry? Or maybe just annoyed by all the noise those people fighting that thing were making, so he got rid off part of the noise?


Well, if I were to hide somewhere, hiding behind a bunch of strong beasts seems like a good idea to me!
The wildlife doesnt need to actively support the heretics cause, they dont need an alliance - all they's need would be a secret passage (or their teleport) to get past the beasts that we have to slaughter. The wildlife can just go about its life without even knowing that the herectis are using it as a shield against any possible intruders.
Fenrir might have been tamed - seeing how we have one as mount and how Fenrir (or rather: hoarhounds, seeing how Fenrir is the name of one of them) pups are being trained/used in the Wolves Den, according to the minion description.


...I'm not saying that there arent weird choices of bosses throughout the game - but the bosses that resemble the actual wildlife of that area actual make a lot of sense to me. But I dont think of them as "guarding" anything, I just think of them living there, minding their own buisness, until we stumble into their living room and start throwing fireballs at them...

Yeah, this is the problem I had with XIII. Sazh and Vanille are on the run from the authorities in a forest. Conveniently, there are some very powerful wildlife bosses at the very end of the zone. They have nothing to do with the characters or the story.


Or Lightning and Hope are on the run from the authorities in a junkyard. Conveniently they are attacked by a very powerful piece of garbage at the very end of the zone. It has nothing to do with the characters or the story.

This is why I think some of the boss fights feel so lifeless. Many times in a dungeon in FFXIV, I'm constantly asking "why am I fighting this thing?" from a story perspective.
Also fun fact: carnivorous plants don't gain energy from eating things, only nutrient.

[Vidu]

This is why I think some of the boss fights feel so lifeless. Many times in a dungeon in FFXIV, I'm constantly asking "why am I fighting this thing?" from a story perspective.
Also fun fact: carnivorous plants don't gain energy from eating things, only nutrients.

I havent played FFXIII, so I cant say anything about that - but it also kinda doesnt matter, since this isnt about FFXIII but rather FFXIV.

And in regards to the bossfights, I can only offer you my approach, which is to ask "Why am I here in this place?" and then look how the enemies, including the bosses fit into it - there are dungeons like Tam Tara HM or Hullbreaker HM where the fights have clearly been set up for you specifically.
But most of the time we're entering dungeons or caves or simply areas that no "human" has entered in a long time, so wildlife took over - and as long as the wildlife fits the general area you're fighting it because its in your way. Or you're in its living room. If you're asking yourself "Why am I fighting this Gobbue in WP?", you might aswell ask why you fought the group of those weird fish before entering the bossroom. I dont know, maybe you're doing that! Personally I'm fine with some bosses not having a whole bunch of lore or "story reason" beside "This creature lives here, its there home and all it wants is for you to be gone". Thats making them less "exiting" than bosses with a story attached - at least to me - but they dont feel out of place. After all, I fought a pelican outside of Brayflox Longstop so it would stop attacking me - why wouldnt there be a pelican in that area, 50 meters away?

...in regards to the plants: I phrased that badly, because yes, real carnivorous plants dont gain energy from their prey - btu who says that the ones in Eorzea dont? Real carnivorous plants also dont move around on 4 little legs that much - or at least not that I know off.

[Edax]

I havent played FFXIII, so I cant say anything about that - but it also kinda doesnt matter, since this isnt about FFXIII but rather FFXIV.

And in regards to the bossfights, I can only offer you my approach, which is to ask "Why am I here in this place?" and then look how the enemies, including the bosses fit into it - there are dungeons like Tam Tara HM or Hullbreaker HM where the fights have clearly been set up for you specifically.
But most of the time we're entering dungeons or caves or simply areas that no "human" has entered in a long time, so wildlife took over - and as long as the wildlife fits the general area you're fighting it because its in your way. Or you're in its living room. If you're asking yourself "Why am I fighting this Gobbue in WP?", you might aswell ask why you fought the group of those weird fish before entering the bossroom. I dont know, maybe you're doing that! Personally I'm fine with some bosses not having a whole bunch of lore or "story reason" beside "This creature lives here, its there home and all it wants is for you to be gone". Thats making them less "exiting" than bosses with a story attached - at least to me - but they dont feel out of place. After all, I fought a pelican outside of Brayflox Longstop so it would stop attacking me - why wouldnt there be a pelican in that area, 50 meters away?

...in regards to the plants: I phrased that badly, because yes, real carnivorous plants dont gain energy from their prey - btu who says that the ones in Eorzea dont? Real carnivorous plants also dont move around on 4 little legs that much - or at least not that I know off.

To put it succinctly, fighting the environment is the lowest level of player engagement. To use the opposite example, The Vault has some very memorable bosses because they actually are involved with the HW story, you understand their motivations, their faction and their cause, and their powers are actively talked about in the MSQ as a key plotpoint. Not only that, but the Vault is inside a landmark that can be seen from multiple zones, so it feels like your in a real place that actually sees regular use, rather than an instance that feels like it only exists in hammerspace.

[Vidu]

To put it succinctly, fighting the environment is the lowest level of player engagement. To use the opposite example, The Vault has some very memorable bosses because they actually are involved with the HW story, you understand their motivations, their faction and their cause, and their powers are actively talked about in the MSQ as a key plotpoint. Not only that, but the Vault is inside a landmark that can be seen from multiple zones, so it feels like your in a real place that actually sees regular use, rather than an instance that feels like it only exists in hammerspace.

While some bossfights and dungeons are clearly more memorable, I dont see why fighting the enviroment on occassion is a bad thing or doesnt belong in the story.

Since you brought up Heavensward and the Vault: an important part of that story was us being out in the wild, looking for Ysayle first and some dragon to help us later. Our way through Sohm Al is embeded in the story and it makes perfect sense to me that its just wildlife in there - because thats all there is and thats what the whole journey leading up to it was about: Normally, no one is allowed to walk that path.

Sure, just fighting the wildlife is a bit more boring and not very creative, in terms of writing - but it also makes perfect that sense that we, as adventurers, encounter not only enemies that have been waiting for us, but also fight the occassional animal or plant on our way through the world.

Even if there is no real motivation to understand with Raskovnik (first boss of Sohm Al, another carnivorous plant), I understand why I'm in that place as part of my general journey. Wilderness and fighting the wildlife is part of this journey. Entering caves and dungeons that no one entered for years is part of some stories and journies within this game aswell, so to me nothing of this feels out of place.
Is fighting a giant plant less engaging than fighting a knight in shine armour? Maybe. But it still adds to the world and fits in pretty well to me.
And the longer I think about it, the more I realise that the "only enviroment"-dungeons are actually kinda the minority, specially with HW and SB, when they stepped up their storytelling a game a bit - and when we get a wildlife-dungeon in one of those expansions, its because we have a reason to be in that place right now. Even without a boss thats engaging from a story-perspective, its still part of the story that you're climbing this dangerous mountain or that you're fighting your way through this ship yard, to get out of it.

To a degree I can see your point about dungeons feeling less connected to the world, because we basically access them from anywhere, rather than getting a real feeling for how they're connected to the world - seeing how thats a convenciene of life feature that I really wouldnt want to be taken away (imagine having to walk to the entrance of a dungeon each time!), I dont see that as a huge problem.

[Bright-Flower]

Why is there 2 Coeurl O’Nine Tails guarding magiteck terminals in the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak? Aren't they plants who need sunlight?
Why is there a Great Yellow Pelican, Deep Jungle Coeurl in Brayflox's Longstop? Are they guarding the Dragon? If so, why does the Dragon just eat the Hellbender in the middle of the fight?
In Dzemael Darkhold, an army of Voidsent have been sent into the realm, conveniently with 3 random bosses that just sit around far apart from each other waiting for adventures to attack them.
In The Wanderer's Palace, there's a Goobbue and a Flan guarding it as bosses, despite it being a Nymian Palace taking over by Tonberry. Are Tonberry allied with the flan or something?
Snowcloak is Ysayle's hideout, yet it's guarded by an Elemental, an Abominable Snowman and Fenrir. Like why? Did the heretics form an alliance with the Yeti or something? Do the wildlife of Coerthas support the heretic cause?
That's just up to level 50, and I could go on.

They're not 'guarding' anything they just happen to be there. They're just monsters that made t hose places their lair. The plants are probably predatory in totorak, preying on the mice or something. Flans aren't allied with tonberries there's just a flan creature lurking there. As for the voidsent in the Darkhold, that's just how dungeons are structured in any MMO I've ever played. It wouldn't be much of a dungeon if the first thing you fought sounded an alarm and then the whole dungeon bumrushed you.

[Edax]

They're not 'guarding' anything they just happen to be there. They're just monsters that made t hose places their lair. The plants are probably predatory in totorak, preying on the mice or something. Flans aren't allied with tonberries there's just a flan creature lurking there. As for the voidsent in the Darkhold, that's just how dungeons are structured in any MMO I've ever played. It wouldn't be much of a dungeon if the first thing you fought sounded an alarm and then the whole dungeon bumrushed you.

So then why haven't the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak attacked the 2 Coeurl O'Nines already? Why aren't the Tonberry attacking the Goobbue and Flan that have occupied their castle? Why aren't the wildlife attacking the heretics in Snowcloak?
This is what I mean about low player engagement, your attacking random things, purely because they randomly happen to be there, just like the Garbage Boss from FFXIII that attacks you when your in a junkyard. It really isn't terribly hard to write a dungeon when they just fill it with random things blocking your path. Since I don't want to play the Warrior of Light as a psychopathic mass murderer, I'd like to know why I'm killing all these random creatures. It's the Evil Empire's logic to kill them "Just because they're in the way".

[Bright-Flower]

So then why haven't the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak attacked the 2 Coeurl O'Nines already? Why aren't the Tonberry attacking the Goobbue and Flan that have occupied their castle? Why aren't the wildlife attacking the heretics in Snowcloak?
This is what I mean about low player engagement, your attacking random things, purely because they randomly happen to be there, just like the Garbage Boss from FFXIII that attacks you when your in a junkyard. It really isn't terribly hard to write a dungeon when they just fill it with random things blocking your path. Since I don't want to play the Warrior of Light as a psychopathic mass murderer, I'd like to know why I'm killing all these random creatures. It's the Evil Empire's logic to kill them "Just because they're in the way".

They're violent and they're in your way and will attack you on sight, because they're monsters or aggressive wildlife. It's not like you're storming into an orphanage and killing everyone for giggles. And when we are fighting sentient beings there's a story reason for why we're doing it. Monsters are, at BEST depending on the type of monster, violent wildlife that will kill you over food or territory just for being where you are so you don't have much choice.