Thank you for increased difficulty

[RiyahArp]

If you make the content harder, there's no guarantee it will lead to more people going into raiding. Most MMOs have the same problem, where the game proper actually starts at endgame and you need to learn or relearn your class. Usually part of endgame guilds job is to teach them that. I don't think any MMO has this perfect difficulty curve to lead people into raids from the leveling experience.

The problem is savage raids themselves have a lot of issues that make them unappealing, list follows.

* It's 2+ hours a week practicing phases of a fifteen minute fight, one that will wipe everyone if one person makes a serious mistake or enough people make recoverable mistakes.
* There's no side raids or options to help you overcome them if you are stuck. No alternate raids to gear up, no specs you can change to, no way to bring more people in and pay for it by rewards taking longer to get, etc. All you can do is change your main, and even then that's not always possible since alt gear takes time, unless you can afford crafted gear.
* New players are a liability, not an asset. The common thing seems to be you PUG a tier in learning parties, over and over, then try clearing it, and then maybe someone will look at you for a static. You often have to solo the content more or less with randoms, which is not why people raid. If you try to do it with friends, you can, but the skill requirements can often doom you if you all aren't on the same level. Players have made their own vetting mechanisms via log rankings to deal with this.

I mean, there are issues being player skill levels that make savage underpopulated. Part of the reason why we had diadem and eureka is that the devs probably realize savage and ex stuff simply can't appeal to enough players inetrested in long term progression due to difficulty. If you make the game harder, that doesn't really make raiding attractive, it just might make people bow out a bit earlier.

[van_arn]

If you make the content harder, there's no guarantee it will lead to more people going into raiding. Most MMOs have the same problem, where the game proper actually starts at endgame and you need to learn or relearn your class. Usually part of endgame guilds job is to teach them that. I don't think any MMO has this perfect difficulty curve to lead people into raids from the leveling experience.

The problem is savage raids themselves have a lot of issues that make them unappealing, list follows.

This is content four patches into level 70. There is no "new player" excuse, there is no "learning" excuse. If people can't handle this boss, then they haven't been paying attention. This is not savage.

If people haven't been paying attention this long, then they're inconsiderate to the people they're grouping with. They shouldn't be encouraged to continue with any group activity, even story modes, with such a selfish mindset.

In fact, it's healthier for the community as a whole if they meet a roadblock until they learn to try to carry their own weight and play their class to what the mechanics of this fight expect.

And yes, that means it's healthier for the community as a whole if the (inconsiderate) dragoon that phones it in with autoattack quits.

[RiyahArp]

This is content four patches into level 70.

No, No matter how good or bad this playerbase is, the issues with savage in itself will always make it a minority activity. If you make a roadblock, it doesn't change the fact that savage has innate flaws that make it unappealing to a lot of people. If you try and make casual endgame into a mini-savage, you will just succeed in pushing that mode's problems down, not lifting people up. The issue of savage needs a different solution than making everything harder to try and make people git gud and want to do it. That's my point.
It doesn;t mean nerfing it either, but they need to think about how to encourage people to do the mode given the structure it as and the informal structure that has arisen over it.

[van_arn]

No, No matter how good or bad this playerbase is, the issues with savage in itself will always make it a minority activity. If you make a roadblock, it doesn't change the fact that savage has innate flaws that make it unappealing to a lot of people. If you try and make casual endgame into a mini-savage, you will just succeed in pushing that mode's problems down, not lifting people up. The issue of savage needs a different solution than making everything harder to try and make people git gud and want to do it. That's my point.
It doesn;t mean nerfing it either, but they need to think about how to encourage people to do the mode given the structure it as and the informal structure that has arisen over it.

I'm not referring to savage. I'm referring to the mist dragon, and how it does a magnificent job of showing who is being inconsiderate by not doing their share.
There is no new player excuse. You pull your own weight, or you really do need to hit a roadblock at this boss.