Thank you for increased difficulty

[Miziliti]

MSQ gives 50 tomestones of gensis
Alliance Raid gives 50
Frontline gives 20
Beast tribe gives 15
Trial gives 10
Normal raid gives 10
Leveling gives 5

All of this without even stepping, into Expert,Mentor or Level 70 roulettes.

5: laughs
10: pass
15: pass
20: pvp pass

The only thing that is worth my time is Expert and Alliance Raid. Please be real. Who'd do the others? Even normal dungeon run is 10 times more efficient.

[Sigma-Astra]

MSQ gives 50 tomestones of gensis
Alliance Raid gives 50
Frontline gives 20
Beast tribe gives 15
Trial gives 10
Normal raid gives 10
Leveling gives 5

All of this without even stepping, into Expert,Mentor or Level 70 roulettes.

- Hardly anyone wants to run MSQ roulette
- A good majority of people use Alliance Raid to level their characters if they don't have all 70's
- Frontline PvP queues are horrible
- Not everyone gives a hoot about beast tribes (beast tribes would be considered optional)
- You only do Trial if you're just barely ready to cap your tome otherwise it's absolute torture to repeat the same fight over and over again when people wipe.
- Well, considering that Normal Raid also includes Alphascape since that's what I got last night and had people wipe three times to Chaos? Eh, 10 tomes is not worth the frustration sometimes.
- Leveling is barely worth writing home about.

There are other options, but these are so tedious to run on a daily basis when one Expert per day is enough to cap your 450 limit before the week ends and it usually takes less than 20 minutes a run.

Expert is the path of least resistance.

[TwistedTea]

5: laughs
10: pass
15: pass
20: pvp pass

The only thing that is worth my time is Expert and Alliance Raid. Please be real. Who'd do the others? Even normal dungeon run is 10 times more efficient.

Expert is the path of least resistance.

Sig brought up the point that there are players in Expert, who clearly don't have the skills/knowledge to be there.

The options that I've stated are for those players so that they are not left out when it comes to tomestones. Of course, they are not time efficient but in that case, such players should improve themselves to the point where they are ready for "Expert" and beyond.

As I've stated previously, the difficultly of Expert should be raised to make it a real "Expert" experience. Have something like an advanced Hall of the Novice, which you have to clear solo and is difficult enough. So that the people who are permitted to enter "Expert" are of a certain standard.


Recap:

Increase the barriers to Expert/Extreme Primals/Savage.

Increase the difficulty of Expert/Extreme Primals/Savage to satisfy those who want greater challenge.

Do not unnecessarily increase the difficulty of MSQ content as this turns off people who are just in it for the story/glam/crafting/gathering/socializing/etc.Unless the unlikely day, when SE decides to stop gating the majority of the content behind MSQ occurs...

If people are not performing in basic/MSQ content, after having the mechanics explained to them repeatedly, politely kick them.

[MOZZYSTAR]

I mentioned in another thread that I'm a casual, albeit not lazy player and I have to say: I really found the mechs/hardness in this patch really fun and creative. So, as a casual player, I have to give thanks, too. I really enjoyed this patch and was so disappointed when I finished it in like... 2-3 hours (minus the sigma raids).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You know if they got rid of some of the excessive button bloat it would be actually a good idea to make harder content. as is, no human being has the concentration required to do things perfectly under these conditions. if you're a machine good for you.

That is absolute nonsense. It doesn't take a machine to play any of the jobs in the game to even a decent level. Some are certainly easier to grasp than others but claiming no human being can handle that much concentration is ludicrous. You may not be able to, however you aren't everyone else. Frankly, if they just trimmed even more skills in 5.0 without adding new ones, I'd be pretty damn bored.

[van_arn]

You're seeing it now. Not how it was at launch when we were in much lower ilevel of gear and didn't have red mages. It was the same thing with Keeper of the Lake. In the gear available and the classes available at the time it came out, the final Middy fight was hard in general and very hard on healers. But the thing those dungeons have in common with The Burn is the unforgiving nature of the mechanics. The insta-kill stuff seems to be what SE falls back on when they want to implement "challenge".

With how overpowered healing is in normal content, that's what they have to do. Sometimes I end up correcting so many mistakes a vuln-stacking DPS makes I wish we'd go back to neverreap's last boss where if they can't stand on the platform I don't have to bother with them again.

[Jib]

I really don’t see the issue with mist dragon... so far I have always one-shot that dungeon... I go as whm and atm I’m only 363. Killed it first with 361. Maybe I’ve been lucky with duty finder players...

[Rangar]

Before this gets any more derailed over mist dragon; a thank you to the devs for putting in better overall fights in general for 4.4. Alphascape, Suzaku, and even the new daily dungeons are going in the right direction in terms of difficulty for the content they're covering.

[Melichoir]

Short of real life disabilities or youre playing on a toaster (it happens), if youre having extreme trouble in content right now but are trying your best, the question that comes up is "Have you been asking questions and seeking out advise?"

Maybe Im cynical, or maybe my own experiences have colored my view of things, but a lot of people who say "Im doing my best/Im trying my hardest" etc arent. They watched a quick video, or skimmed a guide or two, and then go back to playing the game. They dont ask questions of better players, try to understand the mechanics of the class or game, or sit down and practice and hold themselves to a higher standard. The real honest question to ask yourself is "Am I really trying my hardest?" The game is large, how many people join chat servers that have guides and encourage questions and things like that? How many sit down and really practice their rotations and study the guides and try to understand the content?

And I know a general knee-jerk response something along the lines of "WELL, I PLAY CASUAL! I DONT NEED TO BE AN ELITIST!"

Thats fine. You want to play casual, then go for it. Play the game as you want. I know plenty of people who do. But at the same time, dont complain the game is "To Hard" and that youre "Trying your best" when you really arent. I think thats the part that annoys me the most. A lot of people make excuses for being half assed. They want the 'glory' of being good, but dont want to put the effort in doing so. And going back to my opening point, unless you have a disability or a toaster for a computer, putting in effort and practice WILL make you better.

So really, for everyone whos "Doing their best", ask yourselves in all seriousness if you really are. Have you taken the time to practice your class, read guides to their fullest, ask questions from other players to get a better understanding?If not, and you want to be better, then thats where you start. And if youre ok with where youre at, thats cool too. Just make sure when you tell other people youre doing your best, youre telling them "Im doing my best for the amount of effort I want to invest."

[The-Real-Link]

THANK You SE for giving us some dungeons and even a normal raid with some bite to it . Thorough Savage raider here, though granted haven't done Ultimates. But still, while EX primals are indeed a nice challenge, others are correct in that there isn't too much mid-core content here save PoTD / HoH upper floors for sure. While that's not a bad thing, it's nice to see some challenging content!

As a legally blind player who has worked with a team to clear Savage; yes, indeed player skill does have a limit where it is harder to improve. But there also needs to be the will to do so. I'm torn because while I do understand a desire for MSQ to be casual, we are level 70 and two expansions in. I don't think everything should be handed to players. If you're thinking this is hard, I'd still put it on par with above WoW Heroic dungeons, maybe a Mythic 0 early on. Gear will make it a little easier as it always does. I shudder to think if we ever got Mist Dragon in a Mythic+ style of content haha.

But there'll always be backlash. If it wasn't MSQ, then people would say make normal raid harder, or alliance raids harder, or (insert thing) until everything becomes easy, and no one wants that. I understand that all the OP wants to do is MSQ so don't get me wrong, I can understand the argument of being unfairly punished. But at what step do we start holding people's hands slightly less and even provide a modicum of challenge? Having some challenge to the MSQ dungeon makes it great to get through and earned.