Should WHM get a personal damage buff?

[HyperiusUltima]

Been a while since I've popped into this thread. Jesus.

Ever since the buffs, I'm starting to believe we're going to run WHM into the ground to the point it might not exist. A developer can't entirely base a job's performance on just healing alone; which is WHM's only niche. Outside of that, we're basically back at 3.4 Heavensward with AST destroying WHM; but not as badly as that time thankfully. If WHM got a personal damage buff NOW? I don't think it'd help any measure of competing with AST. If they really want WHM to compete for that spot, they need to look at what they did to AST and check out WHM in terms of the Casting GCD.

[Risvertasashi]

but not as badly as that time thankfully. If WHM got a personal damage buff NOW? I don't think it'd help any measure of competing with AST.

The only way we're going to get out of this loop is if AST is reworked.

But SE has said on more than one occasion: an AST rework is just not going to happen.

So... might as well ask for *some* advantages to at least mitigate WHM's situation. I'd rather have Balance and Chain Stratagem and so on made into role actions personally, but I doubt SE will do it. Of course they don't really seem to be open to doing much of anything at all for white mage after the benison change so... IDK.

[Shurrikhan]

I tell myself WHM buffs are coming.

It's like the Dragons in GoT. When they get here it will be epic.

Spoilers...

Killed in vain and ill-reasoned strategies and then used against you?

[HyperiusUltima]

The only way we're going to get out of this loop is if AST is reworked.

But SE has said on more than one occasion: an AST rework is just not going to happen.

If they really think they’re going to rework AST, that’d be a nightmare for development. If anything, WHM is overdue for it. They screwed up this expansion with AST getting buffed, but I think at this point we’re in the same spot as DRKs trying to say that we need fixes to our job because our mechanics/flow is really bad(Lilies/Dark Arts spam). If anything, I have to wonder how they attempt to balance job difficulty with performance.

[Ilyrian]

Unless this would throw the balance out of whack: I think they should add a shielding property to Asylum.
Have a damage reduction of 10-20% or something whilst inside the shield as well as the heal - extend the cooldown if needed.

[HyperiusUltima]

Unless this would throw the balance out of whack: I think they should add a shielding property to Asylum.
Have a damage reduction of 10-20% or something whilst inside the shield as well as the heal - extend the cooldown if needed.

That’s actually not bad. It’s already on a 90s CD isn’t it? You’d be trying to homogenize the Healers that way though and it doesn’t necessarily make WHM better aside from finally being some type of utility that’s Raid-wide.

[Ilyrian]

That’s actually not bad. It’s already on a 90s CD isn’t it? You’d be trying to homogenize the Healers that way though and it doesn’t necessarily make WHM better aside from finally being some type of utility that’s Raid-wide.

I think the problem with aiming for better in these situations always makes someone the loser.
By giving WHM a useful raid wide shield that isn't on demand like the other two, it goes someway to close the gap imo.
Or maybe a raid wide mana restore, or an aoe res? How cool would an aoe res be?! Overpowered, perhaps, but awesome >.<

[Risvertasashi]

If they really think they’re going to rework AST, that’d be a nightmare for development. If anything, WHM is overdue for it. They screwed up this expansion with AST getting buffed, but I think at this point we’re in the same spot as DRKs trying to say that we need fixes to our job because our mechanics/flow is really bad(Lilies/Dark Arts spam). If anything, I have to wonder how they attempt to balance job difficulty with performance.

Lilies are more simply irrelevant (outside of pvp anyways). A rework of lilies wouldn't really address the fundamental issue:
At 3.0, AST's tradeoff for very high utility was lower performing heals, but functionally just reskins of existing healing spells. This turned out to be a pretty bad idea for a game with highly scripted encounters. So now all healers accomplish pretty much the same healing.

This means the ways to differentiate themselves are things like.. well, utility again. Buffs. Damage. MP management. And so on.

Now the big exception here is Scholar. Noct AST has been a joke since the class launched because... well, take Fey Union. Even in savage content, you can ignore the tank or DPS prey targets with this, allowing both healers to DPS. SCH also retains a very powerful party HoT on a 60s CD, while Noct AST has to give up its party HoT for a harder to use, higher-cooldown channeled one. And no one really has an answer to 3 instant tankheals on a 45s CD (or 6 on a 30s CD, depending) for furthering reducing the need of GCD healing.

So you have 2 healers that are nearly identical in the healing they can do. What's the logical conclusion when one outclasses the other in secondary capabilities?

SE has said one of them is never going to get a rework to differentiate their healing abilities. They've said this to the community more than once, in fact, with how often it comes up.

SE has said the other should be a pure healer, without these ancillary abilities that might differentiate it from an otherwise highly parallel healing kit.

So... here we are.

If something doesn't break the cycle, 5.0 will just be another encore. WHM healing will get tuned up or the others tuned down. Some difficult encounter will result in buffs to level out the healing again. But other healers (just possibly 3 now instead of 2) will have utility/damage/etc on top of that....

[Shurrikhan]

Lilies are more simply irrelevant (outside of pvp anyways). A rework of lilies wouldn't really address the fundamental issue

Has anyone taken the time to figure out any significant breakpoints for ability usage via max Lilies, over the context of a real fight (say... Alphascape v3 Savage)?

I imagine there has to be a point at which those Lilies would provide significant advantage, but I'd also guess that we're not there yet. And while the direct heals Lilies require do force the pure healer aesthetic, ensuring that the WHM does all the direct ST healing that would require only a single healer's contributions at a time, its generators still may be too infrequently useful.

It feels like there are still a ton of underlying systems or mechanics that can be used to increase WHM's contribution over time, and during critical junctures, without taking away from it being a pure healer, i.e. without the slightest semblance of RDPS raid buffs. That could be baked into the healing, the damage, or both.

A simple version: the throughput of your Water, Earth, and Wind spells contribute a secondary stat/effect (alternatively, contribute that just towards the other elements). Water contributes... Determination, or perhaps a capped cleave effect. Stone contributes Critical Strike, or perhaps you return Stoneskin in place of DB and it empowers that. Wind contributes Attack Speed or Casting Speed, or trims up to such-and-such % cast time off the next such-and-such casts. Aero now instantly consumes any existing instance of its effect for one-third its remaining ticks' damage when replacing/refreshing it, increasing the direct damage from 50 to 'up to 150'. Stone III damage increased to 230, up from 210 (+10 over previous level), to be more in line with other damage increases, and Stone IV damage increased to 260.

[NobleWinter]

Allowing Aero II to consume any previous ticks already on a target and unleash them as damage upon the renewed application would be awesome. Whm would finally have a reliable spell for weaving that made sense.