Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[Sigma-Astra]

snip

Alright, fine, since you genuinely believed that you knew everything that there was to know about housing. We can still say that you were ignorant about XIV housing for five years straight and that's why you lost your house and items, not just because you feel that SE set you up for failure and didn't explain it enough to you or made it more apparent in-game.

You may have not been willful, but you still were ignorant about the housing rules and regulations. You can't really deny that.

[R-Pete-G]

It's probably worth recapping a few points, as we're now on page 13:

Despite thinking that the in-game communication of the auto-demolition procedure is woefully inadequate, which is evidenced by a lot of the replies here, my post here was just to provide that feedback. I am not contesting that my house was demolished. I am not saying that it shouldn't have been demolished, and I'm not saying Squenix is to blame for it being demolished. I think a lot of the hyperbolic replies bemoaning how ridiculous it is that I didn't know about automatic demolition are, frankly, rather self indulgent opportunities to get on a high horse.

I am, at most, saying that it's no one's fault it was demolished, but merely a symptom of a system that is poorly communicated in comparison to the expectation set by other game systems, that have an abundance more in-game clarification. It's much easier to miss this than a lot of other, far less significant mechanics, and this seems to be something most people can agree on.

My main complaint is that the permanent deletion of furnishings after a demolition is remarkably heavy-handed. If you believe that the automatic demolition feature is entirely without fault, and someone who - for example - goes through a period of prolonged illness or inability to access the game should still have their home (a limited resource) freed up for someone else to enjoy, that's fine.

But I think, again, most of us are able to agree that the relatively short window (or any window at all, I would argue) for permanently annihilating a collection of furnishings that could be years in the making, cost real money on the Mogstation, or even irreplaceable, is unnecessarily unforgiving for people in this situation.

[R-Pete-G]

Alright, fine, since you genuinely believed that you knew everything that there was to know about housing. We can still say that you were ignorant about XIV housing for five years straight and that's why you lost your house and items, not just because you feel that SE set you up for failure and didn't explain it enough to you or made it more apparent in-game.

You may have not been willful, but you still were ignorant about the housing rules and regulations. You can't really deny that.

We got there in the end, thanks. Of course I was ignorant about how the system worked - that's a statement of fact. There's no inherent shame in ignorance; we're all ignorant of something. And despite the well-intentioned people posting in support of my position perhaps implying that it's entirely Squenix's fault, I was not. I appreciate this thread has gotten long, and a lot of people are chiming in, but that's why I insisted on correcting you where I felt that you had made an incorrect assumption about my motivations.

[Penthea]

Because your example with the sprouts didn't really tie into what I was actually arguing for and so, there was absolutely no point to derail the thread about lvl 15 sprouts. It wasn't relevant towards what I believed we were arguing about. If the OP was a sprout then maybe I'd have responded towards the point, but it wasn't a point that had any relevance towards the OP exactly. And yes, people who decide to venture into housing should be more responsible. If they were, we might not have problems like this one right now.

It wasn't relevant to what we were arguing about? I was saying the timing of when you're informed about demolition is very poor. You get the notification the first time you entered a residential district after it has been introduced. Regardless of the level of the player this is terrible. A player who has no interest in housing will skip it. A player who doesn't understand how housing works may misunderstand it. A player who doesn't think they will have a house in a long time or don't want one at the time will dismiss it. And a player who read it at the time but didn't get a house until long after could forget about it. Any of these people could have been OP.

I used the fact that sprouts find out about it at around lvl 15 to highlight how woefully badly timed the information about demolition is presented. My example with the sprouts is most certainly relevant.

The demolition information shouldn't be flung at players when they're not even interacting with the system that allows you to purchase a house. It should be given at a more appropriate time, when it is clear they have an interest in housing...such as after they buy a house, so they can take the time to read it after probably buying the plot in a rush.

Maybe even put in a little quest after players meet the requirements to buy a house (gc rank and being lvl 50), and doing the quest would be a requirement to purchase a plot. That would also make more sense than the current format.

Is it not stressed enough? Sure. Is it this end of the world problem? No, I don't really think that it quite is when most wards are full and have been full for quite a while. If this were such a huge issue, don't you think most wards would be empty all of the time because people don't know?

This differs from server to server. Loads of wards on Moogle have empty plots, and I very often see plots become empty in the wards I visit, and every so often I check the listings in others out of pure curiosity. The wards haven't been constantly full since 4.2 cracked down hard on players hoarding houses for personal use or house flipping.

And no the demolition timer issues are not the biggest in the game. But they're among the biggest issues with the current housing system. Ideally we'd have no timers at all but I wonder at this point if that will ever happen. SE seemed determined to keep the ward system as it is. At the very least SE could improve how the information regarding them is presented. If they already had then this thread may not exist. I doubt OP would have wilfully let the game take away his exclusive furnishings if he knew he could so easily prevent it.

[KarmaCha]

This really sucks for you OP, but I can't sympathize with you. For having owned a house for so long, not only did you ignore it completely for 80 days (even though you were still playing), but you never, not once, knew about auto demo? I don't buy it. It's been mentioned in patch notes several times. The lodestone is not some foreign entity that you're not responsible for checking. There are links to updates, patch notes, notifications etc on the launcher every single time you launch the game. And to top it all off, you need a list of the items you lost because you can't remember what they were? Well then they must not have been that important to you. I'm sorry you're quitting, but this is 100% because of negligence on your part.

[R-Pete-G]

I don't buy it.

I appreciate that this thread is now quite long, so it's not a criticism to you personally, but everything you raised has already been covered and at this point I'd just be repeating myself.

That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.

[MomomiMomi]

That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.

A shame you missed the last ruse that put everyone into a panic about losing their homes. Would have saved you losing your own!

[R-Pete-G]

Was that recently? Some of my FC friends were saying there were reports of people supposedly losing their homes without warning, but when I looked it didn't seem to be related to my issue with emails not being received. Was it a ploy after all?

[Sigma-Astra]

It wasn't relevant to what we were arguing about? I was saying the timing of when you're informed about demolition is very poor. You get the notification the first time you entered a residential district after it has been introduced. Regardless of the level of the player this is terrible. A player who has no interest in housing will skip it. A player who doesn't understand how housing works may misunderstand it. A player who doesn't think they will have a house in a long time or don't want one at the time will dismiss it. And a player who read it at the time but didn't get a house until long after could forget about it. Any of these people could have been OP.

I used the fact that sprouts find out about it at around lvl 15 to highlight how woefully badly timed the information about demolition is presented. My example with the sprouts is most certainly relevant.

The demolition information shouldn't be flung at players when they're not even interacting with the system that allows you to purchase a house. It should be given at a more appropriate time, when it is clear they have an interest in housing...such as after they buy a house, so they can take the time to read it after probably buying the plot in a rush.

Maybe even put in a little quest after players meet the requirements to buy a house (gc rank and being lvl 50), and doing the quest would be a requirement to purchase a plot. That would also make more sense than the current format.

I was arguing about the OP's responsibility, you were arguing about the need for more notifications. It was relevant towards your argument solely, but not mine, and I wasn't even arguing about more or less notifications to begin with. You brought that one up on your own regarding the sprouts. There was two different arguments going on at the same time apparently because I was just for the OP alone.

So, it is what it is. We had two different things we were trying to get across and felt that we weren't getting across towards neither one basically.

/shrugs

[Emstidor]

Sigma, I guess I just don't follow why it's so important that we establish that OP is partially at fault (he is, he even acknowledges it).

This thread is like me going to city hall and complaining that I hit a pothole on my street that damaged my car, then you start ranting for ten minutes about distracted drivers and how the city posted a warning about the pothole on their website, and how I was probably speeding anyway.

Then when I ask you if that means you think the pothole shouldn't be filled in, you reply "What? No I never said that, I agree that pothole is bad and the city should do something about it."

Nobody in this thread has advocated for OP to get his house back, including himself. If you also agree that more visible warnings and notifications about impending demolitions would be a net good thing (which is the entire point of his feedback), then what exactly does OP's degree of fault change?