Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[R-Pete-G]

The conversation between the two of you is obviously going beyond my personal situation, so I won't wade in. Other than to say:

Willful ignorance is not a good excuse.

It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

[Sigma-Astra]

It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

....That's the definition of ignorance.

[R-Pete-G]

...But not the definition of wilful. I'd have to know I was ignorant. You can be ignorant without being wilful; the wilful is an assumption on your part. You can assume all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

[Legewiel]

The point is... Houses should be infinite, like in most of the games. If Square is incapable of providing unlimited houses for whatever reason, that is their problem, not customer problem.

Players shouldn't be expected to read patch notes or to watch live letters in Japanese (which is another crazy thing, why can't live letters have an english version when probably more than a half of their player base doesn't understand Japanese? Put Koji Fox to make the english version, he is charismatic), if we need to keep up with their limitations at least make it more clear, put a visible message inside the game to warn about the house.

A house been demolished shouldn't be a normal thing, its cool for ppl that doesn't have a house but for the customer that is losing a house it'll become one more reason for possibly giving up on the game and I believe that as a company Square doesn't want that, they want to keep up the magic, like Disney, to make him want to come to this world more times and bring his friends too and not create a bunch of hindrances to see how much the customer can keep up with before leaving.

[Penthea]

No, I never directly even stated that I was solely against other notifications directly, you all dogpiled on me and made assumption after assumption that that's what I'm talking about. I am against everyone making excuse after excuse for the OP and absolving him of the partial blame that goes directly into not managing his house better or making the rulers and demolition timer more known to himself after five years.

Okay but when I was on about sprouts getting pop-ups about demolition you showed no sign of even thinking that maybe the tutorial on how demolition works is grossly mistimed. Instead you kept harping on about how housing in this game is like a mortgage in real life and people should be more responsible.

I argue that people can't be more responsible about something if they're not even aware that there is any responsibility attached. Heck a mortgage is paying for a house bit by bit. In this game you pay all the money at once. Of course people tend to assume once they have the house it belongs to them forever. That's how it works in real life if you pay the entire price of the house.

And this is where I keep getting frustrated because some of you are making excuse after excuse for the OP that the blame should be placed solely on SE when it's also the person's own negligence and fault that it happened as well. It takes less than five minutes to Google "XIV Housing" and come up with these.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ This mentions Auto-Demolition at least, not in full detail, but hey, they're telling you it exists.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Housing This one actually talks about the process near the end.

And you prove my exact point right here. I said people tend to learn how content works as they experience it. Going to a website isn't experiencing the content as you play it. Most players like to learn by doing. It's why they play games - to do things. Being expected to go to a source outside of the game to find out about something you can lose in the game is unacceptable. Especially for console users as they often avoid browsing the internet on the ps4 because it's slow as hell.

No, which is why I always go back and re-read things I don't understand, but yes, I also do read the patch notes in their entirety, that's what they're for.....to learn. What's so difficult about refreshing your memory exactly? Again, terrible excuses that you're using to absolve the OP of his share of the blame towards why he lost his house and items.

Well then it seems you are incapable of putting yourself in the place of others and assume because you act a certain way and it works, then everyone else who doesn't is being irresponsible. Heaven forbid this may even be a person's first mmo and wouldn't have a remote idea as to the advantages of reading about content in websites.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the OP being completely innocent and that's what you entire post makes him out to be. I'm not going to change my opinion on that.

No I do not think and never have said that OP was entirely innocent. I even said in my first post that it's OP's fault if he skipped through the tutorial. But that does not mean I'm going to absolve SE of all blame.

The information about demolition timers is given at an extremely poorly timed moment which dooms it to be forgotten, and additional information is hidden in a npc and in a timer window that doesn't even display the timer for most of its duration. SE have even made it difficult to find out about the timer by accident. Surely you can at least see how misleading this is.

[Sigma-Astra]

...But not the definition of wilful. I'd have to know I was ignorant. You can be ignorant without being wilful; the wilful is an assumption on your part. You an assume all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

....You...that's not how ignorance works. You didn't know about auto-demolition or the timers after playing for five years...you even stated that you think it's silly to refer to outside sources for that kind of information. That alone makes you willfully ignorant about housing. It's very hard to feign or deny ignorance after stating such things.

[R-Pete-G]

....You...that's not how ignorance works. You didn't know about auto-demolition or the timers after playing for five years...you even stated that you think it's silly to refer to outside sources for that kind of information. That alone makes you willfully ignorant about housing. It's very hard to feign or deny ignorance after stating such things.

That's not how wilfulness works. You're talking specifically about wilful ignorance. Wilfulness is intent. Being wilfully ignorant is choosing not to educate yourself on a topic that you know you do not sufficiently understand. As I genuinely believed I knew everything I'd need to know to continue enjoying this feature over time, save for perhaps a few specific things about gardening that an apartment / private chambers hadn't taught me, there was no decision not to delve further.

At no point did I say it was "silly" to refer to outside sources for that kind of information - please don't now start inventing things to try and discount my opinion on the matter. I simply don't think it should be necessary to lean on resources external to the game to learn about a fundamental in-game system, because not only are they not objectively and universally regarded as required reading, but the game sets an overwhelming precedent in almost every other regard that it will tell you what you need to know without them.

I'm not trying to respond to your other opinions because I can see how immovably steadfast you are in your subjective opinion on how to play the game correctly. Ridiculously untenable or not, you're entitled to that. But when you make incorrect assumptions about my intent, it's a cop-out to try and make your point.

[Rymm]

It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

The willful part comes into play when you know that sources of information exist and choose not to look at them.

[Sigma-Astra]

Okay but when I was on about sprouts getting pop-ups about demolition you showed no sign of even thinking that maybe the tutorial on how demolition works is grossly mistimed. Instead you kept harping on about how housing in this game is like a mortgage in real life and people should be more responsible.

Because your example with the sprouts didn't really tie into what I was actually arguing for and so, there was absolutely no point to derail the thread about lvl 15 sprouts. It wasn't relevant towards what I believed we were arguing about. If the OP was a sprout then maybe I'd have responded towards the point, but it wasn't a point that had any relevance towards the OP exactly. And yes, people who decide to venture into housing should be more responsible. If they were, we might not have problems like this one right now.

I argue that people can't be more responsible about something if they're not even aware that there is any responsibility is attached. Heck a mortgage is paying for a house bit by bit. In this game you pay all the money at once. Of course people tend to assume once they have the house it belongs to them forever. That's how it works in real life if you pay the entire price of the house.

And I'd argue that refusing to think of even asking or wanting to learn more about XIV housing doesn't negate the partial responsibility a player has for making sure that their own house doesn't get auto-demolition, lol.

And you prove my exact point right here. I said people tend to learn how content works as they experience it. Going to a website isn't experiencing the content as you play it. Most players like to learn by doing. It's why they play games - to do things. Being expected to go to a source outside of the game to find out about something you can lose in the game is unacceptable. Especially for console users as they often avoid browsing the internet on the ps4 because it's slow as hell.

The console users is a poor excuse since you can use a laptop or someone's computer to look up information and if you don't have one? Ask people. If we all had to use outside tools to look up more information regarding housing, why are we suddenly absolving one person from doing it? I mean, I play on PS4 and keep my laptop nearby or at least my phone.

Well then it seems you are incapable of putting yourself in the place of others and assume because you act a certain way and it works, then everyone else who doesn't is being irresponsible. Heaven forbid this may even be a person's first mmo and wouldn't have a remote idea as to the advantages of reading about content in websites.

How so? If I lost my XIV house, I wouldn't be making a forum post and saying that I'm quitting the game over it because it would be my own fault. Plain and simple, really, lol. There you go again with the hyperbole and strawman of things I've never said, you can stop now if that's your only way to argue, thanks.

No I do not think and never have said that OP was entirely innocent. I even said in my first post that it's OP's fault if he skipped through the tutorial. But that does not mean I'm going to absolve SE of all blame.

The information about demolition timers is given at an extremely poorly timed moment which dooms it to be forgotten, and additional information is hidden in a npc and in a timer window that doesn't even display the timer for most of its duration. SE have even made it difficult to find out about the timer by accident. Surely you can at least see how misleading this is.

Is it not stressed enough? Sure. Is it this end of the world problem? No, I don't really think that it quite is when most wards are full and have been full for quite a while. If this were such a huge issue, don't you think most wards would be empty all of the time because people don't know?

[R-Pete-G]

The willful part comes into play when you know that sources of information exist and choose not to look at them.

Not quite - sources of information exist about a great many things, but we don't always choose to look at them if we don't realise they have anything significant to educate us on. Wilful ignorance would be to ignore those sources of information, knowing full well that there was something meaningful you could learn by looking at them.