Seriously, If You're Only Going To Create Designs For Women, Just Genderlock

[Hestzhyen]

There are a ton of cute male glams out there.

Also where do you get off implying that SE doesn't put in some effort when designing things as they are?

People love to act like they know what's going on behind the scenes when they clearly have no idea.

I'm all for holding SE accountable for their mistakes but do everyone a favor and put some thought in before blindly criticizing them for things that aren't realistic. Investing time and money in male only glam when far less people are going to use or purchase it is just not good business.

Oftentimes females will get a completely new set of gear and males will get recycled or modified pieces of existing gear. So that to me screams "girls get more effort". Whether it's because SE wants to play waifu with their own chars, or there is data saying doing so is more worth their while for some reason, we can't say. But I see the results regardless.

Just look at how long we had to complain at them for releasing female-only glamours for them to acknowledge the issue. Now they've solved it by releasing unisex gear... and like I said before I can live with that compared to getting nothing, but it's really obvious what the priority and intent is when outfits are revealed. I just want some cooler, manlier gear more often rather than obvious compromises.

[MoroMurasaki]

I just want some cooler, manlier gear more often rather than obvious compromises.

Virtually all armor that's not Healer and Caster specific reads masculine when it's worn by a male character, the only thing that feminizes it on female characters are the alterations to fit like coming in at the waist or out at the chest.

If you mean more masculine casual clothing styles I think Vidu hit the nail on the head - men's fashion doesn't have the same level of variation or even generally detail that women's does. My boyfriend has a suit, button ups, tee shirts, jeans, chinos, gym shorts and hiking shorts. I have more styles of underwear than he does of clothing in general and he dresses pretty well.

There is also the issue that we generally accept women wearing men's clothes a lot easier than the other way around. If my boyfriend and I were magically the same size and we dressed out of each other's closets and went to the mall no one would look at me twice and everyone would be starting at the chest hair poking out of his crop top. I'm not saying it's a good thing but I think there is more to making exclusively male clothing than you think. Women will be able to wear it as long as all the necessary bits are covered.

[Skivvy]

There are a ton of cute male glams out there.

Also where do you get off implying that SE doesn't put in some effort when designing things as they are?

People love to act like they know what's going on behind the scenes when they clearly have no idea.

I'm all for holding SE accountable for their mistakes but do everyone a favor and put some thought in before blindly criticizing them for things that aren't realistic. Investing time and money in male only glam when far less people are going to use or purchase it is just not good business.

My bad for holding SE to the same expectations that I have for other game devs. You have truly put me in my place.

[Magic-Mal]

There is also the issue that we generally accept women wearing men's clothes a lot easier than the other way around. If my boyfriend and I were magically the same size and we dressed out of each other's closets and went to the mall no one would look at me twice and everyone would be starting at the chest hair poking out of his crop top. I'm not saying it's a good thing but I think there is more to making exclusively male clothing than you think. Women will be able to wear it as long as all the necessary bits are covered.

But it's Eorzea!

[Iscah]

Why do you think SE should consider sinking time and money into creating glam for a comparatively tiny subset of the community? Walk into any major city, you will count so many more female characters to male characters it's ridiculous.

Investing time and money in male only glam when far less people are going to use or purchase it is just not good business.

Firstly, thankyou for the compliments on my Elezen.

I disagree that making clothing specifically for males is bad business - as long as a reasonable amount of players are going to want to use it.

Also some people have said they're only playing as female characters because of the gender-glamour imbalance in the first place, so that may be influencing the numbers (and potentially creating a feedback loop if SE sees 'number of characters' as equal to 'demand for future glamour').

But it's a good point that women can/will wear men's clothes much more easily than the other way around. I think that's their reason for the 'paired sets' of outfits generally being female-exclusive and male-unisex - they decide that enough people will want to put the male version on their female character that it's worthwhile to put the time/effort into making a female model. But there'll be much less demand for male characters to wear the female version.

The IRL imbalance of women being more able to wear men's clothing also does create the difficulty of what design would be male-exclusive-and-unwanted-for-females. I'm not the person to propose an answer for that.

I think (at a 'just a hunch' level) there also may be an imbalance in the game of more male fantasy-setting-appropriate gear and female modern-fashion gear?

[Anselmet]

Ah yes let's make items gendered again therefore those who whine about gear being gender locked can have their turn to complain.


Though I will admit I wish males weren't getting shorts but some stylish pants but those knitted shirts look nice on elezen men. /shrug

[MoroMurasaki]

Firstly, thankyou for the compliments on my Elezen.

(Snipped for length)

I think (at a 'just a hunch' level) there also may be an imbalance in the game of more male fantasy-setting-appropriate gear and female modern-fashion gear?

100% agreed. Honestly I feel like by the end you had kind of already answered your own query about male-specific outfits being bad business. I would also say it would be a good idea if they would see use, the issue right now is that if they made something exclusive to male characters they're locking out the majority of their players. It will, by it's very nature, see considerably less use.

The feedback loop you bring up may very well exist, I certainly wouldn't argue against it. In fact I distinctly remember alluding to the same issue back during The Great Male Bunny Suit Debate. The question then becomes are we going to break the loop or trust that SE will? Because I don't see them taking the initiative. I know it won't happen but if a majority of the playerbase fantasia'd to male characters I am certain we would see an uptick in masculine glamour. As it stands they're a business playing to their key demographic.

I think the disparity between the adventuring (good way to phrase it! I was trying to come up with a word to categorize this but couldn't) and fashion is also important. People want masculine fashion gear but I don't think we will be getting feminine battle gear because it doesn't really make much sense. It just so happens that this is the way the cookie crumbled but I can't help but think masculine and feminine aesthetics lend themselves to adventuring and fashion gear respectively.

Overall if my posts a struck you as me saying that I think men's fashion is a waste of time for the game I apologize that I didn't properly articulate myself. I think it could be cute, I just don't think from SE's perspective that the demand is there because... well... look around. Not a lot of male characters.

But it's Eorzea!

And Eorzea, like the real world, has two genders called male and female with distinct (If not slightly blurrier) aesthetics. If it had three genders or eighty genders or no genders this would be a moot point.

Either way my point is about the irl position of the dev team, not Eorzea. They live in a world that restricts men from crossing into women's fashion far more than the inverse. That's going to color their opinions whether we like it or not.

I'm not saying I agree with this or I feel personally that clothing (or glamour) should be gendered, I'm saying it's harder for your average person to conceive of an outfit that's too masculine for a woman to wear than it is for someone to come up with things that are too feminine for men to wear. If you want to argue that point go ahead but it's a losing battle.

[Theodric]

Men's fashion is actually a pretty huge industry. A growing one, at that. It's not as if there aren't specific stores devoted solely to men's clothing either. Yet putting all that aside, FFXIV isn't afraid to draw inspiration from various different real world cultures. There's ample pieces of cultural and historical attire to tap into when it comes to stuff that looks cool and masculine on a male model. A male counterpart to Edda's dress, for instance, could have easily have been some sort of pseudo Victorian/Gothic attire. Think the sort of outfits worn by characters in games such as Bloodborne.

Simply unlocking a lot of the outfits used exclusively by NPC's would be a good start. Especially since Yoshi-P has expressed a desire to appeal to role-players. I'm not talking about major NPC's, either - but rather the likes of the Ishgardian and Hingan civilians wearing fancy looking attire that is not currently available to players. People have actually been asking for this for years, though...so I won't hold my breath.

Then there's things like Hien's outfit to consider. Most people requesting it on this forum were specifically after the hairstyle as well. Though that wasn't added - even though it could have been a neat looking unisex hairstyle.

[Usho]

Ah yes let's make items gendered again therefore those who whine about gear being gender locked can have their turn to complain.


Though I will admit I wish males weren't getting shorts but some stylish pants but those knitted shirts look nice on elezen men. /shrug

I'd rather have gender locked gear than another expansion filled with feminine looking dresses, high heel boots and bedsheet robes for my spellcasters and healers. Seriously, I think the gear designers at SE have no reason idea what stylish masculine gear looks like, since they are so obsessed with feminine gear and cutesy crap for the ladies all the time. If 5.0 ends up delievering the same sh*tty gear designs and reskins, then that will be the last expansion SE will be getting my money.




/2 cents

[Bakaburgmeowmeow]

Please stop forcing your limited, biased concepts of gender onto everyone else. Make everything open to both genders, and actually look for the gear that is modern and masculine. it's there. There are literally pressed suit pants, khaki cargo pants, and classic blue jeans, suspender shirts, leather coats with white button ups underneath. you're grasping at straws. Besides, feminine clothing for males is NOT a bad thing....like, ??????? Just because your preferences aren't represented doesn't mean SE is doing anything "wrong". That's like boycotting an ice cream shop because although they have a myriad beloved flavors, you think a flavor they don't have should be a staple and because they don't, you're disgusted and think it's a travesty. That's childish. We're getting about as neutral a new set as i have seen with those toggle coats. They are completely neutral coats. Cable knit sweaters are also neutral, and even if they were not...it's okay to like it. it's okay to wear it and really all this complaining about wanting more specifically masculine options for males is just showing your own insecurity.