Seriously, If You're Only Going To Create Designs For Women, Just Genderlock

[MoroMurasaki]

Are you saying that the actual women's Ao Dai that the devs put in is okay but asking for the men's version of the Ao Dai to be added is wrong because it's not Earth? Seriously? We're doing this again?

No, I'm saying acting like you are entitled to the men's version of an outfit irl because there is a female version in-game is nonsense.

That wasn't even my thread.. don't put that on me lol. But based on that are you saying feminine things on men in RL aren't feminine on men in-game to you? Or just the sweater?

I'm saying you act too much like Eorzea is the real world. The rules are clearly different there. Why get bogged down in the conventional masculinity or femininity of an outfit when we walk around in crazy spiky armor with swords and spears and magical floating globes? Realism has no place here. Quite literally the same argument countless people threw at you in that mess of a thread.

See my responses to others above you. I'm not actually asking to genderlock items. I'm making a point saying that they might as well genderlock because they won't make masculine things. Yes I bet we all wear men's clothes but that wasn't the point. The point was that male characters don't get masculine items. That's the core message.

In fact, I was never a supporter of locks in anything. Ever.

And I'm saying I think you're wrong and the examples you provided are invalid. You took some glam items you felt were feminine and portrayed them in feminine ways. As Iscah proved with their Elezen these things are definitely more gender neutral than you gave them credit for.

Why do you think SE should consider sinking time and money into creating glam for a comparatively tiny subset of the community? Walk into any major city, you will count so many more female characters to male characters it's ridiculous.

If they were literally exclusively putting out female glamor then we would have a problem. If your OP was actually true we would have a problem. The issue is not that there are no masculine clothing variants it's that you don't like the ones that are available.

I'm curious what you would even want? You want coats that fit differently? Those boots from your OP are practically in the game already. I don't remember their name but they show up around the high house boots on the market board. I remember looking at them and thinking 'ew, this are manly' and not buying them.

You're asking for glam we don't need to fix a problem we don't have. Any gender imbalance in the number of available outfits is easily explained by the imbalance of characters of each gender. Hell, the way that works out I would say male characters are overrepresented in the amount of glam they get.

[Iscah]

Why do you think SE should consider sinking time and money into creating glam for a comparatively tiny subset of the community? Walk into any major city, you will count so many more female characters to male characters it's ridiculous.

Investing time and money in male only glam when far less people are going to use or purchase it is just not good business.

Firstly, thankyou for the compliments on my Elezen.

I disagree that making clothing specifically for males is bad business - as long as a reasonable amount of players are going to want to use it.

Also some people have said they're only playing as female characters because of the gender-glamour imbalance in the first place, so that may be influencing the numbers (and potentially creating a feedback loop if SE sees 'number of characters' as equal to 'demand for future glamour').

But it's a good point that women can/will wear men's clothes much more easily than the other way around. I think that's their reason for the 'paired sets' of outfits generally being female-exclusive and male-unisex - they decide that enough people will want to put the male version on their female character that it's worthwhile to put the time/effort into making a female model. But there'll be much less demand for male characters to wear the female version.

The IRL imbalance of women being more able to wear men's clothing also does create the difficulty of what design would be male-exclusive-and-unwanted-for-females. I'm not the person to propose an answer for that.

I think (at a 'just a hunch' level) there also may be an imbalance in the game of more male fantasy-setting-appropriate gear and female modern-fashion gear?

[MoroMurasaki]

Firstly, thankyou for the compliments on my Elezen.

(Snipped for length)

I think (at a 'just a hunch' level) there also may be an imbalance in the game of more male fantasy-setting-appropriate gear and female modern-fashion gear?

100% agreed. Honestly I feel like by the end you had kind of already answered your own query about male-specific outfits being bad business. I would also say it would be a good idea if they would see use, the issue right now is that if they made something exclusive to male characters they're locking out the majority of their players. It will, by it's very nature, see considerably less use.

The feedback loop you bring up may very well exist, I certainly wouldn't argue against it. In fact I distinctly remember alluding to the same issue back during The Great Male Bunny Suit Debate. The question then becomes are we going to break the loop or trust that SE will? Because I don't see them taking the initiative. I know it won't happen but if a majority of the playerbase fantasia'd to male characters I am certain we would see an uptick in masculine glamour. As it stands they're a business playing to their key demographic.

I think the disparity between the adventuring (good way to phrase it! I was trying to come up with a word to categorize this but couldn't) and fashion is also important. People want masculine fashion gear but I don't think we will be getting feminine battle gear because it doesn't really make much sense. It just so happens that this is the way the cookie crumbled but I can't help but think masculine and feminine aesthetics lend themselves to adventuring and fashion gear respectively.

Overall if my posts a struck you as me saying that I think men's fashion is a waste of time for the game I apologize that I didn't properly articulate myself. I think it could be cute, I just don't think from SE's perspective that the demand is there because... well... look around. Not a lot of male characters.

But it's Eorzea!

And Eorzea, like the real world, has two genders called male and female with distinct (If not slightly blurrier) aesthetics. If it had three genders or eighty genders or no genders this would be a moot point.

Either way my point is about the irl position of the dev team, not Eorzea. They live in a world that restricts men from crossing into women's fashion far more than the inverse. That's going to color their opinions whether we like it or not.

I'm not saying I agree with this or I feel personally that clothing (or glamour) should be gendered, I'm saying it's harder for your average person to conceive of an outfit that's too masculine for a woman to wear than it is for someone to come up with things that are too feminine for men to wear. If you want to argue that point go ahead but it's a losing battle.

[Iscah]

100% agreed. Honestly I feel like by the end you had kind of already answered your own query about male-specific outfits being bad business. I would also say it would be a good idea if they would see use, the issue right now is that if they made something exclusive to male characters they're locking out the majority of their players. It will, by it's very nature, see considerably less use.

By "specifically for males" I didn't mean gender-locking the male gear (though I now realise it reads like that), but I do think they could do with more outfits where they set out to design something that primarily suits male characters, and appeal to a different fashion taste than their usual gear, but still make it available to everyone.

Of course, it seems that part of the issue is what they perceive to be male fashion in the first place - whether it's because of cutural differences or personal design taste. They're starting from a different reference point.