We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Dualgunner]

I did make a serious point there.

No, you over exaggerate your opponent's position in order to pretend you have a point. "Harder" doesn't mean "Ultimate", nor does it mean "Savage" or even "Extreme," it just means give it a sting to give tanks and healers something to do that's not sleeping.

If you think harder is better, I would suggest doing a lot of trial content, and watch how often they wipe, you come in progress into a duty, or just how often newbies lay on the ground.

I mean, I do a decent amount of trial content through roulette to get tomes to get better gear. Generally speaking, there's no issues on the fights; funniest thing is, fight I see the most deaths on is Bismarck NM.

Now imagine you just made the game decently harder at 50 up, more harder than trials are now. Like spend a night or two doing tsukuyomi as a non raising dps job.

I did Tsukuyomi as a Samurai three or four times on Lilila because I had friends who got on at separate times wanting their clears. That count? Or are you saying I'm not allowed an opinion until I've had a very specific experience?

You guys always assume everyone is going to be like you and like it being harder, or they will just do well at it.

You always assume people are mental midgets who can't tell why a square peg won't fit in a round hole.

People want it harder, but they really assume they will still one shot it if push comes to shove.

I don't assume things would be one-shottable if they were harder. I guess I also just don't think things need to be one-shottable, either.

[HyoMinPark]

Why yes, I would love to see a Chrysalis EX. What could go wrong?

Now that sounds fun!

The last two times I’ve gotten Chrysalis, there were literally no deaths and no hiccups. On my alt’s first clear, we didn’t even need to LB3 the tear because DPS was that good. We LB’d him. And the tanks got the meteors in the Rift! People popped orbs as they were supposed to. It was wonderful. Though, I’ve never had many issues in Chrysalis; it’s rare I even get a party that has a member leave, or we wipe. I think I can count on one hand the amount of wipes I’ve seen in there out of all the times I’ve had it come up in the roulette.

For people that struggle, outside of newbies that are unaware of the mechanics, screw ups are the fault of both the player screwing up and the game for coddling them to the point where they never have had to pay attention before.

You guys really need to spend a few nights just doing trial roulette over and over sometime. Just watch the newbies, and imagine what it would be like if Susano was even harder. Imagine if they reverted Ultros to "you need to get all three imp punches on Typhon or its a wipe." We're literally doing hard trials at maybe 1.5x the original HP, and people still get flattened. I kind of wish they would just because it would be absurd, but I think you guys need to really get out of the box some.

Imagine what it would be like if this game actually required players to think when they were doing content, instead of rolling their face along it. Everything from level 1 to Royal Menagerie (with very few exceptions) is easy and requires nothing more than the barest of minimums from players. That’s why they get to something like Shinryu or Tsukuyomi and are woefully unprepared. Or, you know, Guardian NM. I don’t know what it is with him, but the normal mode lasts a solid 5 minutes longer than the Savage’s enrage.

But again, that’s the fault of nerfs, the game handholding players, and the content barely demanding more than a pulse from people from level 1 to cap. That’s not the fault of the content, or of it being inherently “too hard”.

[RiyahArp]

Like HyoMin said, recent content wasn't really nerfed (Yet), so you end up with people rolling over everything for more than 60 levels suddenly getting their ass kicked by trials like Susano or Royal Menagerie.

making it harder at low levels just means they get their butts kicked earlier. Hyo talks about the vault as a good example of difficulty...if you did it a hw launch it was not a fun thing at all, and the saving grace was you didn't have to do it again once POTD launched, (as well as nerfs.) they even nerfed garuda story at one point. Brayflox hard last boss will murder people even now.

I think someone needs to, when they do the usual ask Yoshi thing, ask him about difficulty.

Because we as players have so many different perspectives, and only he actually can see how we do. I think a lot of the problems we have is because he never really uses data any more, like the old censuses. I mean we new Gordias was a problem because of the census clear rates for example.

The last two times I’ve gotten Chrysalis, there were literally no deaths and no hiccups.

I tanked an Ifrit Hard tonight where both healers died. I actually do trial as my relaxing thing, sometimes 10 times or more a night. Only takes ten minutes a pop or so usually. Yeah, people wipe on the chrysalis, tanks don't know to stand in circles, dps stand in circles instead. healers do, etc. Things like on Ravana hard, people don't know you can dodge the second and third hits of his little slashing attack, or that prelude means away and slaughter behind. Shin has people repeatedly wipe on the first tidal wave.

Yeah, people struggle.

Imagine what it would be like if this game actually required players to think when they were doing content, instead of rolling their face along it. Everything from level 1 to Royal Menagerie (with very few exceptions) is easy and requires nothing more than the barest of minimums from players.

You'd filter out a lot more players before they reached endgame. People would quit, and this game already has churn issues. Maybe those that remain would be a little better, but savage would still be unappealing and you'd still complain about people in roulettes and pugs.

[Ilan]

making it harder at low levels just means they get their butts kicked earlier. Hyo talks about the vault as a good example of difficulty...if you did it a hw launch it was not a fun thing at all, and the saving grace was you didn't have to do it again once POTD launched, (as well as nerfs.) they even nerfed garuda story at one point. Brayflox hard last boss will murder people even now.

I think someone needs to, when they do the usual ask Yoshi thing, ask him about difficulty.

Because we as players have so many different perspectives, and only he actually can see how we do. I think a lot of the problems we have is because he never really uses data any more, like the old censuses. I mean we new Gordias was a problem because of the census clear rates for example.

The Vault was fun before it got nerfed because it required you to use your brain instead of just rolling your face over your keyboard/gamepad. It was even a better feeling to get it done when you had a group where people messed up everything.

[Sigma-Astra]

I did make a serious point there. If you think harder is better, I would suggest doing a lot of trial content, and watch how often they wipe, you come in progress into a duty, or just how often newbies lay on the ground. Now imagine you just made the game decently harder at 50 up, more harder than trials are now. Like spend a night or two doing tsukuyomi as a non raising dps job. You guys always assume everyone is going to be like you and like it being harder, or they will just do well at it. People want it harder, but they really assume they will still one shot it if push comes to shove

Tsuki is not that hard. It's literally "if you have black, you're white. If you're white, you have black". We've been doing color opposites since Bismarck EX with green snake/blue snake, and you're trying to tell me that Tsuki is "too hard". She reuses Shiva ice circles as well for crying out loud. So, if the playerbase cannot do mechanics that are being rehashed since HW, then yes, it's the player base's fault and less of the game's fault.

Start memorizing patterns and seeing the connections like the rest of us instead of looking for carries. Actually use your brain and TRY like the rest of us.

I've done her 99 damn times for my totems on BLM. She's not hard.

[DaulBan]

You guys always assume everyone is going to be like you and like it being harder, or they will just do well at it. People want it harder, but they really assume they will still one shot it if push comes to shove.

Not to be a jerk but, I will still clear content even if it's hard. Especially if the bar for difficulty is Tsukuyomi of all things. It's a matter of patience and persistence in learning and then execution, and if the content is difficult then it's just a matter of grinding until its done. It's not my responsibility to hope that Jo Schmo from Sargatanas who has only med2 and cure III on his hotbar can still do the same content I can because he's only using one hand while watching the fifty-sixth season of Family Guy on Netflix. If you wanna do something hard then learn to do it, try and complete and then compete. That's the bread and butter of it. If Tsukuyomi is too hard for the average player but the average player wants to do it then John Smith better get his act together and clear. Not my problem, nor anyone else's.

[Reynhart]

making it harder at low levels just means they get their butts kicked earlier.

If the games kills you in the early content, most people will just assume they have to get better and simply improve. If the game gives you the feeling that you're good by clearing content one after another, then kick your ass much later, you'll just feel like the game is being cheap.

It's like making a platform game with 10 levels without any hazard, then designing the last level like a bullet hell.

Hyo talks about the vault as a good example of difficulty...if you did it a hw launch it was not a fun thing at all

I really liked the Vault at launch...but for my wife, it was her first dungeon failure since the first Stone Vigil, and she got a little traumatized by it...until we tried it again and it went well because she improved.

[RiyahArp]

Tsuki is not that hard.]

hard mode. Hard mode has her do the fans + ahk morn mechanic. You wouldn't believe how that murders people. Part of it is netcode, lunacy on the move will not always register everyone. Even if im in position, i can get hit for 26k on initial hit because im aparently a few steps behind some of the people. Part of it is one healer out of position gets hit for 100k, and ouch.

As for ex, feh, not everyone processes "drop it here and fast," and at this point no one even does it, I see maybe two pf or less for it on primal.

Not to be a jerk but, I will still clear content even if it's hard.

Cool, other's wont.. No one seems to think people might actually not do it, and go put in Overwatch or Fortnite for a bit. You're kind of gambling people are going to do so instead of putting the game down. Or that they will keep doing leveling now that its a little closer to an ex trial and you waste more time on it.

If the games kills you in the early content, most people will just assume they have to get better and simply improve

No, really, not everyone will think like this. If I could make one point, its that you cannot take this for granted.

[Reynhart]

No one seems to think people might actually not do it, and go put in Overwatch or Fortnite for a bit.

Sure, someone frustrated by a challeging PvE game will go play a competitive PvP game...

You're kind of gambling people are going to do so instead of putting the game down.

For me, if you want to keep a healthy playerbase, you have to expect some dedication from them, so that you have room to create deeper and deeper content to avoid stagnation, wich is, coincidentally, the major problem of FFXIV. If wiping in a lvl 20 dungeon makes one go cry in a corner, then maybe this game is not for them.

[KaivaC]

hard mode. Hard mode has her do the fans + ahk morn mechanic. You wouldn't believe how that murders people. Part of it is netcode, lunacy on the move will not always register everyone.

Netcode aside, people in these runs often run to the first fan, or don't even try to reach the spot where a fan will spawn last, or won't switch colors, or stacks with the tank when a tankbuster is coming up. Not even talking about 1st time players.

Why should we feel bad or guilty for other players lacking common FFXIV/MMO sense? How is it a problem of ours when players who are definitely not new to a fight struggle to deal wth mechanics that are easy if your paying attention? Why would it be wrong to say git gud, when it's the truth for a non-EX trial like this?

Sure, we can remind people of mechanics with a line or two, but coddling player ignorance and carrying them is not the burden of us players who are going through the exact same content.