We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[RiyahArp]

Tsuki is not that hard.]

hard mode. Hard mode has her do the fans + ahk morn mechanic. You wouldn't believe how that murders people. Part of it is netcode, lunacy on the move will not always register everyone. Even if im in position, i can get hit for 26k on initial hit because im aparently a few steps behind some of the people. Part of it is one healer out of position gets hit for 100k, and ouch.

As for ex, feh, not everyone processes "drop it here and fast," and at this point no one even does it, I see maybe two pf or less for it on primal.

Not to be a jerk but, I will still clear content even if it's hard.

Cool, other's wont.. No one seems to think people might actually not do it, and go put in Overwatch or Fortnite for a bit. You're kind of gambling people are going to do so instead of putting the game down. Or that they will keep doing leveling now that its a little closer to an ex trial and you waste more time on it.

If the games kills you in the early content, most people will just assume they have to get better and simply improve

No, really, not everyone will think like this. If I could make one point, its that you cannot take this for granted.

[Reynhart]

No one seems to think people might actually not do it, and go put in Overwatch or Fortnite for a bit.

Sure, someone frustrated by a challeging PvE game will go play a competitive PvP game...

You're kind of gambling people are going to do so instead of putting the game down.

For me, if you want to keep a healthy playerbase, you have to expect some dedication from them, so that you have room to create deeper and deeper content to avoid stagnation, wich is, coincidentally, the major problem of FFXIV. If wiping in a lvl 20 dungeon makes one go cry in a corner, then maybe this game is not for them.

[RiyahArp]

Sure, someone frustrated by a challeging PvE game will go play a competitive PvP game...

Yeah, not everyone plays those games competitively or in ranked. Arcade modes, Lucioball, Mystery heroes, etc. Only as competitive as you make it.

For me, if you want to keep a healthy playerbase, you have to expect some dedication from them, so that you have room to create deeper and deeper content to avoid stagnation, wich is, coincidentally, the major problem of FFXIV. If wiping in a lvl 20 dungeon makes one go cry in a corner, then maybe this game is not for them.

The stagnation has nothing to do with difficulty, it has everything to do with repeating the same structure of endgame for what, four years? The only real change was eureka, and that was where all the life is. Even Pagos. That has nothing to do with difficulty, and making it harder will just make people less incline to bother with it as opposed to sit in limsa chatting on discord.

Sure, we can remind people of mechanics with a line or two, but coddling player ignorance and carrying them is not the burden of us players who are going through the exact same content.

...well, what happens when you make it harder then? I mean geez, you feel that way now, the last thing you want is hard content because it will be ten times worse.

[Dualgunner]

Yeah, not everyone plays those games competitively or in ranked. Arcade modes, Lucioball, Mystery heroes, etc. Only as competitive as you make it.

But by your logic the more effort they put into ranked, the less fun casuals will have in it.

The stagnation has nothing to do with difficulty, it has everything to do with repeating the same structure of endgame for what, four years?

These are not mutually exclusive things.

The only real change was eureka, and that was where all the life is. Even Pagos. That has nothing to do with difficulty, and making it harder will just make people less incline to bother with it as opposed to sit in limsa chatting on discord.

As opposed to now, where...people in general just sit in Limsa chatting on Discord.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The stagnation has nothing to do with difficulty

Actually, it does. You can create a grand spectacle of new mechanics, but if they don't hit harder than a wet noodle, people aren't going to care or even bother with them. Look at how reviled Thordan Normal is. Even casual players voiced their disappointment the epic boss of Heavensward was a glorified chump fight so pathetic you could be at ilvl and still stand in virtually all his mechanics. The devs have openly acknowledged the playerbase views dungeons as boring. Has it ever dawned you that perception derives from how utterly brain dead most of them are? You seem to view a wipe or two as awful. How dare someone not one-shot nearly everything because it's story. That lack of difficulty or challenge is why people breeze through content even more rapidly than before. When nothing has any teeth, it isn't going to last.

[Zojha]

Sure, someone frustrated by a challeging PvE game will go play a competitive PvP game...

...Why not? Do you know what MMR (Matchmaking Rating) is and what it does? A competitive PvP game is only as "difficult" as your opponents make it and players are typically matched with/against people of similar skill via MMR. So you don't need to adjust to the difficulty if you don't want to, the game will adjust the difficulty to suit you.

What you are doing is expecting the players to cater to the game, rather than the game catering to the players. That's incidentally exactly what Yoshida does when he tells you to "Please learn how to do that" about grinding in Pagos. And I'm not sure about you, but I didn't "learn how to do that", because I didn't find it fun. I simply skipped Eureka entirely and play something more enjoyable in the meantime. It's no different with difficulty.

That said, it is indeed the case that not all content, or all games, are for everyone. You pick your audience by catering to them. A game like Dark Souls is marketed as unforgiving from the start and caters to people who like such an experience quite well - as a result, most of its players are happy with it. Players who prefer something easier will likely not pick it up, play other games instead and be happy with that.
And trying to change the audience halfway through is bound to lead to alienation and issues. As it stands, if someone doesn't enjoy wiping in a lvl 20 dungeon, this game is, in fact, for them, because the chances of it happening are close to zero. Changing it means that the game is indeed no longer for them, but rather a different set of people, so the players you already have leave and new players come in. You better make sure that's worth the trade.

[Reynhart]

The stagnation has nothing to do with difficulty

For me it kinda has a little. You can't create that much different mechanics if you need to keep them shallow. And it contributes to the repetitiveness of content. The first time you face the "stacking" mechanics or the "turn away" mechanic, you might find it fun and refreshing. The tenth dungeon that uses it is just "Oh, it's that again..."

...Why not? Do you know what MMR (Matchmaking Rating) is and what it does?

Even with a proper matchmaking, you'll get your ass kicked several times. If you think people are too childish to try again a PvE if it's challenging, they'll probably react the same when they lose a match in PvP.

What you are doing is expecting the players to cater to the game, rather than the game catering to the players.

Problem, there are lots of different players. A game is supposed to help new players improve, not asking skilled players to give up any kind of expectation. Especially for an MMO with a subscription fee, players that can't show the dedication required to improve are the most likely to unsub for good when the next trendy game launches.

As for Eureka, sorry, but that content was designed with an old school vibe, for players who wanted something different than the usual content. If it's not your gig, the healthy solution is simply not to do it and still play just about everything else in XIV (Like you did). They didn't bring Savage down to expert difficulty so that people didn't have to "learn how to play it".

[lillucario]

...Why not? Do you know what MMR (Matchmaking Rating) is and what it does? A competitive PvP game is only as "difficult" as your opponents make it and players are typically matched with/against people of similar skill via MMR. So you don't need to adjust to the difficulty if you don't want to, the game will adjust the difficulty to suit you.

What you are doing is expecting the players to cater to the game, rather than the game catering to the players. That's incidentally exactly what Yoshida does when he tells you to "Please learn how to do that" about grinding in Pagos. And I'm not sure about you, but I didn't "learn how to do that", because I didn't find it fun. I simply skipped Eureka entirely and play something more enjoyable in the meantime. It's no different with difficulty.

That said, it is indeed the case that not all content, or all games, are for everyone. You pick your audience by catering to them. A game like Dark Souls is marketed as unforgiving from the start and caters to people who like such an experience quite well - as a result, most of its players are happy with it. Players who prefer something easier will likely not pick it up, play other games instead and be happy with that.
And trying to change the audience halfway through is bound to lead to alienation and issues. As it stands, if someone doesn't enjoy wiping in a lvl 20 dungeon, this game is, in fact, for them, because the chances of it happening are close to zero. Changing it means that the game is indeed no longer for them, but rather a different set of people, so the players you already have leave and new players come in. You better make sure that's worth the trade.

Using Pagos as an example is probably the worst you could do to argue your point. It's a completely different style of content like Reynhart said and there isn't really anything to learn, it's just killing mindless trash mobs endlessly.

The game right now is catering more to the casual side of things leaving the people who desire a challenge to look elsewhere for it when before Stormblood they definitely had their fill. Ultimate has helped alleviate this issue somewhat but we only got 2 of those throughout the entire expansion. It also really doesn't help that the early savage floors have dropped down to the level of extreme trials because we're just getting less and less and people's disinterest in the content is really starting to show.

[Hamada]

The problem is we, as a community, permit people in terrible outdated gear because it's "mean" to kick someone with a level 50 weapon in Mettle or the autoattacking black mage in Doma Castle.

It's our fault.

Maybe, I would likely do the same thing. My GF on the other hand has no tolerance for it since she knows most do not speak up and give them passes. So she will flat out tell them the problem and remove them saying "sorry, you are simply not ready to take on this place yet"

Please re-read my post.. I edited it after the original version.

I saw it, it simply does not address my point:

THAT'S MY POINT!! I don't think you're realizing that we're talking about the same gearing issue with the "All Classes" tag.

SB fixed the issue with SB GEAR meaning SB gear doesn't have any gear with "All Classes". That was my point!!! And I specifically pointed out how it was an issue because ARR gear and HW gear WEREN'T FIXED!

I do NOT CARE if new gear does not have "all classes" on it, again not my point in saying SB did not fix the issue. The issue is you can bring that "All gear" EVEN IN CURRENT CONTENT IF you meet the ilevel average. So nope, SB did not fix anything.



Reason? Because the Japanese player base likely does not do this. They only changed SB right because they felt that is all that was necessary, and that was to stop tanks wearing str gear in current cap. The SB change to new right gear has nothing to do with NA player base cheesing the duty finder like this, all it had to do with tanks wearing str gear, and had to take a second measure to stop it by adding str to tank jewelry.

I mean...at some point, the fault starts to lie with the players themselves. Even if one used a jump potion, you should have enough common knowledge about MMOs to know that you should keep your gear updated as you level up. The mistakes that the devs make, yes, they should be called at to fix. But if, as a player, you've made it to the second dungeon, and your right side is empty or is under 200 (I'm being very lenient on this...really, you should be at least 240-260 by the time you hit SB), then the fault lies entirely with that player doing this.

I disagree with this because you have to consider what this game has in mind for a target audience. So no, there needs to be better duty finder gating, if what you claimed was the true case, there be no ilevel gating at all. So you can't make a half flawed system? But again I think this has more to do with cultural differences, as I am sure the dev team did not expect people to act in this manner.

[Magic-Mal]

I saw it, it simply does not address my point:

I do NOT CARE if new gear does not have "all classes" on it, again not my point in saying SB did not fix the issue. The issue is you can bring that "All gear" EVEN IN CURRENT CONTENT IF you meet the ilevel average. So nope, SB did not fix anything.

Okay so you are arguing something completely different from what anyone was even talking about from the very beginning. You're arguing your own thing. Don't get mad at me for not understanding what you're trying to say. Sigma's post which was the start of this, was about wearing gear incompatible with the wearer's class at early levels. Not people going into SB stuff at ilvl49 and it not being fixed because of what the JP do.

This isn't about materia though. Low level tanks can equip those low level gemstone accessories because they're for "All Classes".

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...m/2c7ec61c874/ This is a problem in leveling roulette.

And absolutely no one said your issue with the game wasn't an issue. And I in fact, kept telling you I agreed with you. Repeatedly.

If they are only making changes (or not) because of what the JP do and not ALL the western players of the game as well, especially considering NA is half the players, and then you add EU, it's a massive oversight. By definition

o·ver·sight
ˈōvərˌsīt/Submit
noun
1.
an unintentional failure to notice or do something.