We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[HyoMinPark]

I can't speak for who you're responding too, but what I think they mean (and I could be wrong) is that the stats don't matter because there is no choice/decision.

I.e. BRDs only care about CRIT. Because they have synergy built into their kit off this. Because they lack that with other sub-stats it instantly makes the others useless. Thus making gearing binary and useless in general IMO.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I do know that more synergy between kits and stats would be welcomed though.

The vibe I got from their reply was that the stats themselves literally had no influence on your character—which is false. I did not get the vibe that it was “the choices are too binary” or “there are no options for customization”; just a flat “they don’t matter”. This was mostly because of their “a level 50 job has the same Crit Rate as a level 70 job” comment, which isn’t true; I’ve seen the difference on my main versus my alt.

I’m well aware of why BRDs (and MNKs) favor Crit over everything else; BRD is my main job after all—the only one I play at any optimization level and with high consistency. That question was rhetorical.

EDIT: This comment specifically is why I don’t think they’re talking about lack of choice—

I generally don't even look at the stats anymore because they're ultimately meaningless. . . .The current stats basically do nothing. a level 50 blm with 300-350 spell speed casts flare the exact same speed a level 70 blm does with 1600-1700 spell speed. there is literally no difference.. crit is the same. a level 50 bard with a few hundred crit lands just as many crits even on a level 1 striking dummy as a level 70 bard with 1700 crit... all these extra stats but they literally do nothing.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The vibe I got from their reply was that the stats themselves literally had no influence on your character—which is false. I did not get the vibe that it was “the choices are too binary” or “there are no options for customization”; just a flat “they don’t matter”. This was mostly because of their “a level 50 job has the same Crit Rate as a level 70 job” comment, which isn’t true; I’ve seen the difference on my main versus my alt.

I’m well aware of why BRDs (and MNKs) favor Crit over everything else; BRD is my main job after all—the only one I play at any optimization level and with high consistency. That question was rhetorical.

EDIT: This comment specifically is why I don’t think they’re talking about lack of choice—

Yeah I know what they said, I just assumed (for right or wrong) that they actually meant something else. I assumed that they understood that rates can't be indefinite and must be relative thus what they're saying and what I think they're actually trying to say is different.

Maybe I'm giving too much credit, especially in hindsight to whom said it.

I cited BRD as the example because of your expertise in the job, not as an indicator of a lack of info on your end, in case that wasn't clear.

[Hamada]

The reason why I don't think this is the whole/real reason is because they actually did fix it... for SB. In SB all accessories are role-locked, as it should be. But for some reason they didn't change the old ARR and HW jewelry. That's why I call it laziness, an oversight, or simply forgotten. Because they could've changed it with the release of SB... but they didn't. It's a common trend they have honestly. It's rare they ever go back and fix old stuff. I don't know why(Looking at you ARR story)

No they did not, did you even read what I said? People are able to queue in wrong gear for anything under level 69, basically a dungeon you gain exp for. you can gear in a level 1 weapon and sub level 50 crafter gear and queue for castrum abania. You can queue for current expert, just as long as the right side carries the left to meet the ilevel requirements. They did NOTHING to FIX OR ADDRESS THIS! The only reason for the class lock was to stop tanks using str jewelry. When doing that change, they did not bring up concepts of people cheesing the duty finder walls.





See? I did this just now, no SB did not address this. The ONLY reason for that change for the right was because of tanks wearing STR gear. Even with that, tanks still used i270 right to get around that. They made another change putting some str on tank right so they stop doing it.

Those changes had nothing to do with the NA player base cheesing requirements, just they did not want tanks wearing str right because it made things harder on healers, that is the only reason they did those changes, and that is why it was never addressed because my guess it is a NA player base issue, and they tend to ignore those.

Being reactive to the industry is necessary (i.e. big money loss prompting change), but it's also sub-optimal. You want to be proactive in that you drive trends and be flexible enough to be able pivot as the industry/climate changes.



I can't speak for who you're responding too, but what I think they mean (and I could be wrong) is that the stats don't matter because there is no choice/decision.
I.e. BRDs only care about CRIT. Because they have synergy built into their kit off this. Because they lack that with other sub-stats it instantly makes the others useless. Thus making gearing binary and useless in general IMO.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I do know that more synergy between kits and stats would be welcomed though.


Pentamelding my accs easily cost millions even with a healthy bank of them stored. probably near 3MM.

Regular gear melds? They're very reasonable, esp since you have a good chance of getting them back when removing them.

I will say it again, we are talking about melding for a tank, without caring about absolute BIS. I said 100% slot is VI, after that would be Vs or IVs

so VI, 26k - 100%
V, 3.4k - 17%
IV, 1k -10%,6%

Please explain how this is millions, and if you are going to pull out "I live on an inflated server" so is your ability to make gil. It is not hard, there is no excuse not to panta meld, saying it cost "millions" like it is too hard or an excuse to enter dungeons gimp. I do not think it is a lot to ask of people to at least meld with the proper stats in the 100% slots, and use IVs to show you are at least trying. Also the game hands you combat materia on top of things, there is no excuse not to use best stats for your job when melding

For me, Stormblood has one thing better than Heavensward : ilvl distribution.
What pissed me a lot in HW is how farming tomestones was mandatory if you wanted to have access to the content at launch (Neverreap and Fractal only dropping i160 when Gordias required 170)
At least in Stormblood, the level 70 dungeons dropped i300 where Deltascape only required i295.

SB,HW, ARR, it is all the same, the only difference was early HW was a bit harder of entry to the first dungeons, but in general, all have the same ratios of ilevel gain when the new 24 man comes out, the new 8 man comes out, and crafting gear alternatives.

Ya your referring to the first series of HW, the second and 3rd however is exactly the same as SB though.

[HyoMinPark]

The only reason for the class lock was to stop tanks using str jewelry. When doing that change, they did not bring up concepts of people cheesing the duty finder walls.

The ONLY reason for that change for the right was because of tanks wearing STR gear. Even with that, tanks still used i270 right to get around that. They made another change putting some str on tank right so they stop doing it.

This was exactly why they put the lock on the accessories, it also ties in to what I’m going to say below.

As an aside about the i270 stuff, the funny thing was, is that raiders were fully prepared to go into Deltascape with i270 Alexandrian accessories because the accessories at the time did not have STR on them. It wasn’t uncommon to see tanks in Expert Roulette wearing their Alexandrian right side.

Those changes had nothing to do with the NA player base cheesing requirements, just they did not want tanks wearing str right because it made things harder on healers, that is the only reason they did those changes, and that is why it was never addressed because my guess it is a NA player base issue, and they tend to ignore those.

My honest opinion of this is that the developers have a vision in their head of how we are supposed to play, and when a group goes against that vision (e.g., tanks in DPS stance never touching their aggro combo), the developers don’t tend to like that, as it ruins their vision. So, they implement things to try and stop the behavior: removing the ability equip STR jewelry (or even removing it entirely from tank accessories, as it was when 4.0 launched); trying to add additional affects/potencies to skills under [tank stance] effect to make them use tank stance (there is a DRK ability that makes it seem like it would do more damage in Grit, but it actually doesn’t once you factor in damage penalties from turning Grit on); etc.. But, they eventually realize it’s a pointless endeavor, so they “cave” and try to compromise. Sadly, the compromise is still not enough (at least with regards to tank accessories).

Now, behavior like this is more common in NA, but it is certainly not limited to NA only; JP cares just as much about optimization and a certain website as NA does (heck, a lot of the top runs in terms of damage and skill tend to be by JP players most of the time). The JP side of it is just less blunt and direct, from what I understand (and that falls in line with how they typically are culturally).

[Hamada]

This was exactly why they put the lock on the accessories, it also ties in to what I’m going to say below.

As an aside about the i270 stuff, the funny thing was, is that raiders were fully prepared to go into Deltascape with i270 Alexandrian accessories because the accessories at the time did not have STR on them. It wasn’t uncommon to see tanks in Expert Roulette wearing their Alexandrian right side.



My honest opinion of this is that the developers have a vision in their head of how we are supposed to play, and when a group goes against that vision (e.g., tanks in DPS stance never touching their aggro combo), the developers don’t tend to like that, as it ruins their vision. So, they implement things to try and stop the behavior: removing the ability equip STR jewelry (or even removing it entirely from tank accessories, as it was when 4.0 launched); trying to add additional affects/potencies to skills under [tank stance] effect to make them use tank stance (there is a DRK ability that makes it seem like it would do more damage in Grit, but it actually doesn’t once you factor in damage penalties from turning Grit on); etc.. But, they eventually realize it’s a pointless endeavor, so they “cave” and try to compromise. Sadly, the compromise is still not enough (at least with regards to tank accessories).
Now, behavior like this is more common in NA, but it is certainly not limited to NA only; JP cares just as much about optimization and a certain website as NA does (heck, a lot of the top runs in terms of damage and skill tend to be by JP players most of the time). The JP side of it is just less blunt and direct, from what I understand (and that falls in line with how they typically are culturally).

I really do not get what you are trying to tell me or add to my post. i did explain they later added str so why point out something like " accessories at the time did not have STR on them" to me?

Same with the second part,, why are you talking about who optimization what and where? That is not the issue im talking about. What I am talking about is that they are out of touch (at least with the NA population) with people cheesing out entering the duty finder. They did not change jewelry to curb this, they ONLY did the change to the jewelry because of tanks wearing STR gear, NOT people cheesing the duty finder, wearing stuff that does not apply to your job at all. Also SB has not curb people doing this:




So this goes way back to this and why this was started:

Oh THOSE. Yeah the devs need to take action with that as well. They seem to have a big problem with changing anything that isn't the new thing. Tanks up to SB can still wear STR accessories, but also everything else. Again, another oversight by the loveable devs. Or maybe not an oversight. Just didn't care.

The real answer is, they are ignoring a NA player base problem. does anyone really know if the Japanese player base have players frequently cheesing the duty finder requirements?

I AM SO LOST RIGHT NOW! You already responded to my quote last page but now you're responding to the same quote with a totally different response that doesn't correctly respond to my quote @_@. I never said SB fixed the ilvl issue I said that SB fixed the "All Classes" issue with DoW players putting on magic gear, since all gear in SB is job-locked.

IT DID NOT THOUGH!!! you can still enter SB dungeons in 50 and below "all class" crafter gear.

[Magic-Mal]

IT DID NOT THOUGH!!! you can still enter SB dungeons in 50 and below "all class" crafter gear.

THAT'S MY POINT!! I don't think you're realizing that we're talking about the same gearing issue with the "All Classes" tag.

SB fixed the issue with SB GEAR meaning SB gear doesn't have any gear with "All Classes". That was my point!!! And I specifically pointed out how it was an issue because ARR gear and HW gear WEREN'T FIXED!

[HyoMinPark]

snip

Calm down; I’m literally only building off of points you already provided, as well as providing a counterargument into why I personally think they added in the job lock to accessories—it is, in a way, to prevent tanks from using STR accessories; but that also comes from the developer’s way they think tanks should be played in this game (i.e., always in tank stance, always using their enmity combos, etc.).

I personally don’t think the change came from making it easier on healers to heal, as I never had issues healing STR tanks in HW (and I’m not a healer main, nor was I a Savage raider back then—I only did Ex trials up until the final months of Creator). With the change to tank damage scaling off of VIT in 3.4, there was no issues healing tanks then. But that change was reverted thanks to changing in how Weakness/Brink of Death functioned, which was already discussed several pages back (so I’m not going to rehash it now).

Not everything is an attack on your posts.


EDIT: If you would like me to specifically address DF queue cheesing, then there is a simple solution to this: regardless of the gear one is currently wearing, if their job meets the level requirements for a duty, they will always have the chance of landing in that duty (e.g., a person is level 70, but they don’t want to get Swallow’s Compass so they attempt to remove gear too lower their item level so it does not pop—but the Duty Finder ignores this and puts them in the queue for it anyways, as they have unlocked it and they meet the base level requirement for it; it would also help if the game was able to recognize “They’ve cleared this content before” to also add another layer of ignoring item level manipulations).

[Magic-Mal]

No they did not, did you even read what I said? People are able to queue in wrong gear for anything under level 69, basically a dungeon you gain exp for. you can gear in a level 1 weapon and sub level 50 crafter gear and queue for castrum abania. You can queue for current expert, just as long as the right side carries the left to meet the ilevel requirements. They did NOTHING to FIX OR ADDRESS THIS! The only reason for the class lock was to stop tanks using str jewelry. When doing that change, they did not bring up concepts of people cheesing the duty finder walls.





See? I did this just now, no SB did not address this. The ONLY reason for that change for the right was because of tanks wearing STR gear. Even with that, tanks still used i270 right to get around that. They made another change putting some str on tank right so they stop doing it.

Those changes had nothing to do with the NA player base cheesing requirements, just they did not want tanks wearing str right because it made things harder on healers, that is the only reason they did those changes, and that is why it was never addressed because my guess it is a NA player base issue, and they tend to ignore those.

I AM SO LOST RIGHT NOW! You already responded to my quote last page but now you're responding to the same quote with a totally different response that doesn't correctly respond to my quote @_@. I never said SB fixed the ilvl issue I said that SB fixed the "All Classes" issue with DoW players putting on magic gear, since all gear in SB is job-locked.

You first responded with:

If they fully understood the problems here, it would been all fixed for HW, but it has not, and the ilevel skipping is still an issue. They also have not addressed wearing wrong gear or put a gate of ANY KIND for dungeons you do to level up in, i/e 15-69. So no, they do not understand the situation and clearly out of touch. They only did the jewelry because they got tired of tanks being too hard to heal from wearing str jewelry, has nothing to do with knowing how often the player base outside of japan cheese out DF requirements.

And my response was:

Well, not understanding the issue at all is teeechnically an oversight :P. Oh and high-five for also seeing the clear issue with early leveling, players putting on the wrong gear, wrong melds, and that the devs don't seem to know that it's an issue that needs to be fixed.

I argued the same thing until I fell asleep.

I actually agreed with you about equipping things incorrectly and that it's an issue and had a whole debate with Kaiva about how there needs to be a warning sign to prevent or at least notify players of equipping something not compatible with them...

[KaldeaSahaline]

I will say it again, we are talking about melding for a tank, without caring about absolute BIS. I said 100% slot is VI, after that would be Vs or IVs

so VI, 26k - 100%
V, 3.4k - 17%
IV, 1k -10%,6%

Please explain how this is millions, and if you are going to pull out "I live on an inflated server" so is your ability to make gil. It is not hard, there is no excuse not to panta meld, saying it cost "millions" like it is too hard or an excuse to enter dungeons gimp. I do not think it is a lot to ask of people to at least meld with the proper stats in the 100% slots, and use IVs to show you are at least trying. Also the game hands you combat materia on top of things, there is no excuse not to use best stats for your job when melding.

I am a PLD tank. I pentamelded my accs last tier. It costs me roughly 3MM in raw Materia. Not counting the opportunity cost of the 20+ I had on me.

It's 5 gear slots, that have 4 materia slots with 10% less success rate. DH 5's cost 20k-30k each.

I am on Behemoth server. What Materia are you pricing exactly? Tenacity?