We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Magic-Mal]

This isn't about materia though. Low level tanks can equip those low level gemstone accessories because they're for "All Classes".

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...m/2c7ec61c874/ This is a problem in leveling roulette.

Oh THOSE. Yeah the devs need to take action with that as well. They seem to have a big problem with changing anything that isn't the new thing. Tanks up to SB can still wear STR accessories, but also everything else. Again, another oversight by the loveable devs. Or maybe not an oversight. Just didn't care.

[KaivaC]

Oh THOSE. Yeah the devs need to take action with that as well. They seem to have a big problem with changing anything that isn't the new thing. Tanks up to SB can still wear STR accessories, but also everything else. Again, another oversight by the loveable devs. Or maybe not an oversight. Just didn't care.

To be fair, I don't think the devs even knew that the theorycrafters would produce what would be BiS stat weights for jobs/particular BiS builds for each job. WARs are highly encouraged to go with a Crit meld, while PLDs are intended to be built with a DH meld, with DRK leaning more towards Crit with some DH, from what I last saw. That may have changed, though - I haven't been around that much since July, so I dunno if that still holds true, or if there were any other changes to what 4.3 tanks should be using now.

[Magic-Mal]

To be fair, I don't think the devs even knew that the theorycrafters would produce what would be BiS stat weights for jobs/particular BiS builds for each job. WARs are highly encouraged to go with a Crit meld, while PLDs are intended to be built with a DH meld, with DRK leaning more towards Crit with some DH, from what I last saw. That may have changed, though - I haven't been around that much since July, so I dunno if that still holds true, or if there were any other changes to what 4.3 tanks should be using now.

Oh they knew. They knew since HW at the very least, when the "STR Tank" craze got big. They figured out the theorycrafted builds with STR and decided to nerf strength to only give half a point of "damage" and added a damage effect to VIT to encourage players to wear VIT jewelry over STR jewelry. They then reverted the change after alot of backlash. Then they nerfed it AGAIN for some reason. And finally, SB rolls up, reverts the change for a 3rd time and they make it so tanks CANT wear DPS jewels at all. Creating Tenacity as the "compromise". Unfortunately, I hear Tenacity is a worthless stat because the effects of the stat are so tiny that you'd need a ridiculous amount of tenacity just to see a difference compared to something like Determination or Direct Hit.

It's like filling a container with sourdough pretzels(Direct Hit) vs filling it with Cocoa Krispies(Tenacity).

[KaivaC]

Oh they knew. They knew since HW at the very least, when the "STR Tank" craze got big. They figured out the theorycrafted builds with STR and decided to nerf strength to only give half a point of "damage" and added a damage effect to VIT to encourage players to wear VIT jewelry over STR jewelry. They then reverted the change after alot of backlash. Then they nerfed it AGAIN for some reason. And finally, SB rolls up, reverts the change for a 3rd time and they make it so tanks CANT wear DPS jewels at all. Creating Tenacity as the "compromise". Unfortunately, I hear Tenacity is a worthless stat.

Tenacity pretty much is useless for the most part, save for a select few scenarios that really wouldn't be applicable to the playerbase as a whole. Tanks can put on DPS jewels i.e STR, DH, and Crit. As my prior post said, WARs should generally meld for Crit, PLDs should go for DH, and DRK lean towards Crit melds. Unless your talking about other materia, which would be useless for physical based jobs save for a couple of materia.

[HyoMinPark]

Oh they knew. They knew since HW at the very least, when the "STR Tank" craze got big. They figured out the theorycrafted builds with STR and decided to nerf strength to only give half a point of "damage" and added a damage effect to VIT to encourage players to wear VIT jewelry over STR jewelry. They then reverted the change after alot of backlash.

The revert was mostly due to the changes to Weakness/Brink of Death with Stormblood; they no longer affect your Vitality, and instead are penalties to your other stats. They obviously couldn’t just have tank’s damage untouched by Weakness/Brink, so they reverted to STR. On top of the other changes they made.

[Reynhart]

As a heads up getting sarcastic and condescending when you are also demonstrating a truly hopeless lack of understanding and information only serves to make you look really, really ignorant.

Gotta give you credit, you're really good at souding pedantic and making the situation way worse than it actually is. Good thing Yoshi-P has people like you to justify the game's shallow itemization.

[Aster_E]

-snip-

If you're going to be angry about something then at least try to get your info right on how a thing does or doesn't work, rather than trying to insult people who contradict what you have to say. This game does, indeed, have its flaws that need to be fixed or improved upon--many of which likely won't ever--but that's not an excuse to make yourself look like both an idiot and a jerk. Plain and simple.

[Magic-Mal]

The revert was mostly due to the changes to Weakness/Brink of Death with Stormblood; they no longer affect your Vitality, and instead are penalties to your other stats. They obviously couldn’t just have tank’s damage untouched by Weakness/Brink, so they reverted to STR. On top of the other changes they made.

I'm more of the mind that they changed the status effects because they thought the HP debuff was too harsh and sometimes made it impossible to survive attacks once you reached Brink of Death. Now the trade-off is 25%/50% of damage but no HP or MP loss. Pretty major debuff but I guess it fixed the issue of being unable to survive anything even if you tried.

HW Weakness/Brink of Death never affected the Vitality stat. It affected the maximum HP and MP numbers and the STR/DEX/INT/MND stats. -15% HP, MP and STR/DEX/INT/MND for Weakness and -30% for Brink of Death. The VIT stat only determined which what the original HP number the game would subtract from. Same for Piety. That system hurt tanks regardless because of the STR part of it. Tanks still used STR but the power addition was still a buff that was exempt from the weakness so yes that part's true. They still lost the STR boost but I guess it felt more like 7.5% and 15% since they made STR count as half.

When SB came along and they reverted all that but made the Tenacity stat and nerfing tanks pretty hard because now STR does equal 1.000 power but they made the new Weakness debuffs 25%/50%. Tenacity isn't affected by Weakness though. Meaning tanks still have a damage advantage over anyone else in terms of getting hit with Weakness. They aren't hurt as badly damage-wise. If Tenacity ever gets buffed.. Tanks would have a big advantage actually.

EDIT: Putting the rambling aside, I believe the devs reverted the STR/VIT tank problem in SB because they created Tenacity, thinking it would be enticing enough for players to give up stacking STR. Unfortunately the devs don't seem to realize that damage is the only things that matters to players and things like "Reduces Damage Taken" and "Increases HP Restored" mean absolutely nothing to them or the combat concept of this game. Especially when healers are so powerful.

[KaivaC]

The only people where those stats matter are the world-first contenders, because any advantage they can have is worth it. The game itself doesn't require this kind of min-maxing to beat.
So, denying character builds because 0.00000001% of the population would actually kick you for not being optimal is a very weak excuse...

Going through the posts over the last several pages and came across this - I'd like to refute this. At a certain level, those stats do start to actually matter. Back when I was actively obsessing over getting orange/blue numbers, I spent literal entire playtimes doing nothing but practicing Monk on the God Kefka dummy. Pre-melds, I was not clearing the dummy. After suggested melds, I was clearing the dummy relatively easily. I would chance to say that had I actually entered V8S, the results would be the same in the sense that I would be pulling my own weight, rather than relying on my other party members to carry me. Stats matter in the sense that you are sharing the burden with your other party members, rather than adding to their burdens. This goes hand in hand with knowing your rotations as well, just from my experience in 4.2.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm more of the mind that they changed the status effects because they thought the HP debuff was too harsh and sometimes made it impossible to survive attacks once you reached Brink of Death. Now the trade-off is 25%/50% of damage but no HP or MP loss. Pretty major debuff but I guess it fixed the issue of being unable to survive anything even if you tried.

That was why they changed it. I never said otherwise, or that the changes to Weakness/Brink were due to them wanting to change tanks back to STR, which is what you’re implying—they changed tanks back to STR from VIT because they took away the penalty to VIT from Weakness/Brink. I would suggest you re-read my post, because you seem to have misunderstood what I was saying.

HW Weakness/Brink of Death never affected the Vitality stat. It affected the maximum HP and MP numbers and the STR/DEX/INT/MND stats. -15% HP, MP and STR/DEX/INT/MND for Weakness and -30% for Brink of Death. The VIT stat only determined which what the original HP number the game would subtract from. Same for Piety. That system hurt tanks regardless because of the STR part of it. Tanks still used STR but the power addition was still a buff that was exempt from the weakness so yes that part's true. They still lost the STR boost but I guess it felt more like 7.5% and 15% since they made STR count as half.

It absolutely did affect VIT; VIT is what determines your total HP value. A reduction of your HP by 15% is because your VIT was reduced by 15%. It was -15% to all of your main stats (VIT/STR/DEX/INT/MND/PIE). Your MP went down because Piety was considered a main attribute back then, and a 15% reduction in your MP was caused by your Piety stat being reduced by 15%. Piety determined MP just like VIT determined HP.

The Patch 4.0 Notes confirm this:

The weakness and brink of death status ailments have been adjusted as follows:
—Weakness (Before): All main attributes are reduced by 15%.
—Brink Of Death (Before): All main attributes are reduced by 30%.

—Weakness (After): Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind are reduced by 25%.
—Brink of Death (After): Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind are reduced by 50%.

VIT is a main attribute; ergo, it was affected by HW Weakness/Brink of Death.