We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[ko_]

If more and more people point out that the current direction is less and less appealing, it might reach their ears. The problem is that it feels like Yoshi-P isn't even aware of the problem when you read some interviews, so even if a decision is taken, he might not even know how to "fix" the game. Funny thing though, he stated in an interview that he was free to take the game wherever he wanted back in Heavensward.

Finally, we don't expect the same kind of shift from 1.0 to 2.0, since the game is still in a much better shape than back then, but having someone new either as Producer or Director might bring something fresh to the game. IIRC, Yoshida himself said that he would be glad if someone else took one of his role (Can't remember which one).

This is true too. I'm not saying it can't happen, hell this game existing is something that shouldn't happen if we're all being honest here. Games that die don't get second chances cause suits HATE taking risk. So it could very well happen, and I'll cheer if it ever does. I just don't see it happening. Not with the current status anyway. And whoever steps up is taking a HUGE shoe to fill. I dunno many people can step to that roll and produce something fresh that turns the game around. But one of the reasons I say that is alot of the issues people seem to have are problems mmos as of late haven't fixed so expecting someone to fix those.. if they did.. they would be rich as jones. But thats just me. - don't hate me T.T-

[SaitoHikari]

As a BRD duoing PotD, Feint was a staple for me because the Slow effect completely gimped casting enemies making them easier to defeat. I got rid of Invigorate for Second Wind and another skill for Bloodbath. Can I do that now? Nope. They took my choice away. Remember when SMN and SCH had Blizzard II and SCH had Aero? Bye bye choices.

I kind of glossed over everything else as I have no interest in retreading ground ad verbatim, but I find this part mildly hilarious because many raid Bards actually took Feint for an entirely different reason: It let them cram 2 oGCDs per GCD with Wanderer's Minuet turned on during their opener, back when bowmage meant that using Heavy Shot in WM meant that you were only fitting 1 oGCD without incredible amounts of DPS loss clipping. It also had the advantage of letting the Bard continue attacking even when they knew they had to move with no way to avoid doing so.

There were a select few Bards that practiced 'stance dancing' with Wanderer's Minuet, but they were few and far between, what with netcode delays and all. The vast majority of the top Bards in the HW days always ran Feint.

SMN and SCH also only used Blizzard II because it was a DPS gain over Ruin against 3+ mobs back in those days as well, and applying Aero was also a DPS gain over using another Ruin (and maybe Broil).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I didn't say all jobs are the same as other jobs in PvP. Maybe I said it the wrong way. All BRDs are the same. All MNKs are the same. Everyone follows a very restricted rotation. Even against high level PvPers you know exactly what every monk will do because they have nothing else they CAN do. It was all deleted. Did you forget all those skills and CC actually made a difference? You can't differentiate yourself from others now. But that seems to be the problem you have. Wanting to be different = wanting to be special = not needed because it's not the best math-wise

That has always been the case. 3.x PvP only allowed mild CD reduction and potency changes based on how you allocated points. You were still the same Monk as every other Monk. What you're essentially asking for is a system where the same job can be completely different skills based on player choice. This is where illusion of choice comes into play because once people figure out the best abilities, there is literally no reason to take anything else. Taking something else is you wanting to be different simply to be different. You aren't benefiting the party, you just want to say "I'm different than that other Monk!" FFXIV simply doesn't work like that and it never will. Our equivalent of "specs" is being able to switch jobs whenever we want.

You glossed over everything I said about the early leveling experience which is totally bad right now. Yes there were things like Raging Strikes, Blood For Blood and Internal Release that people took because they were pretty much needed but there were other skills like Foresight, Keen Flurry, Bloodbath, Feint, Mercy Stroke, Flash etc, that actually affected the gameplay. Unlike the 60% of every role ability each class has that are completely useless in any content which used to just be regular attacks with an effect before anyway. Why they removed all the abilities just to put them back in but with no damage attached and deleting the cross class system is BEYOND ME.

Because it wasn't relevant. Keen Flurry and Bloodbath on Dragoon aren't going to make the leveling experience any better, especially seeing every dungeon 60 and below was nerfed, thus rendering those abilities far less effective. Would being able to Flash on Warrior be nice? Sure, but it makes absolutely no difference from simply using Overpower. Leveling below 50 is boring because the game is horrendously paced both in needless fetch questing and how long it takes to obtain game changing abilities. If Dragoon learned Chaos Thrust earlier, you now have two full combos. That's far more interesting than using Mercy Stroke when a mob's HP drops below 20%.

As a BRD duoing PotD, Feint was a staple for me because the Slow effect completely gimped casting enemies making them easier to defeat. I got rid of Invigorate for Second Wind and another skill for Bloodbath. Can I do that now? Nope. They took my choice away. Remember when SMN and SCH had Blizzard II and SCH had Aero? Bye bye choices.

Feint was only good because BRD lacked auto-attacks in Heavensward. Now it'd simply be a DPS loss since you'd be giving up Quick Nock for a slow that has very little benefits. If dungeons had any teeth to them, CCs like that would be cool. They don't. And you do realize Blizzard II and Aero were taken only because they were a DPS gain in certain circumstances, yes? People who did that weren't trying to be unique, they were trying to be helpful which runs entirely contradictory to what your entire argument has been.

So basically... the illusion of choice because there's always one that's mathed out to be the best. It's an illusion of choice because any other armor set up is "wrong" and those few BiS armor sets are the right ones. Making it pointless to wear anything other than those certain sets, therefore making it not a choice.

Also I'm not trying to be special. Do you see me putting in Skill Speed into my MCHs and DRGs? No. I do tend to follow what makes me the strongest. However if I have an idea to make something and it doesn't harm my do to broken extents I, and anyone else should be able to do so. Maybe I should push my BRD Skill Speed to 2.29 GCD. Just so you can be upset that I exist even though you don't see or interact with me.

That doesn't even begin to make sense. If there are multiple BiS sets, then you have a choice. You're simply demanding to do something extremely different because you want to, and claiming being unable to do so is robbing you of a choice. No, it's you simply being stubborn.

I couldn't care less what you do. I'm merely pointing out your argument is essentially "I want to be special." You want to do something different for no other reason than "because I want to." Even if it doesn't benefit the time.

Is anyone hurting your feelings doing so? Is a person with a stupid build clearing Kefka in Mateus hurt your feelings over there in Cactuar in what I assume to be your static?

Not at all. I'll merely call them out if they start arguing this is just player choice and their stupid build is perfectly fine because it's objectively wrong. You want to gimp your own damage for no reason? Have at it. All that does is make you look foolish. Nice strawman, by the way. One of many.

1. Implying randoms will 100% always be pure BiS and peak performance and will care or even notice a person's stats. Lol. If a Lancer is in Ridorana doing high DPS and even outdpsing others, I guarantee you you're not the problem and no one will kick you. At most people will be laughing at the fact a Lancer is there.

I never implied nor insinuated that once. In fact, if you bothered to actually read what you quoted, I outright not having access to better gear is one thing. Likewise, if you're ignorant to better alternatives, that's also fine. Both scenarios are far different than your examples. And maybe some will, others might not find it so amusing because you're little more than a hindrance hiding behind others picking up the slack. You can do it, but don't try to argue it's anything except you not giving a damn about anyone else.

2. You seem so against this "illusion of choice", okay. What's your idea of an online game that's done correctly that doesn't have a theorycrafted solution to render everything else subpar and creating an illusion of choice? Name one online game.

They don't really exist. That's why skill trees and specs are generally an illusion. WoW has the same problem except stats play an even bigger role. You will get kicked if you're preferred spec has been deemed useless. Playing a build you think is cool works fine in single player games where it's only you effected. Doing so online for no benefit other than yourself is you being a jerk. If you want to do it, again, go for it. But call it what it is, you want to feel unique even if it's a detriment to the party.

[Reynhart]

If the stats “didn’t matter”, why is it that tank BiS for the last two tiers has chosen pentamelded crafted accessories over the Savage or Tomestone accessories?

The only people where those stats matter are the world-first contenders, because any advantage they can have is worth it. The game itself doesn't require this kind of min-maxing to beat.
So, denying character builds because 0.00000001% of the population would actually kick you for not being optimal is a very weak excuse...

[HyoMinPark]

The only people where those stats matter are the world-first contenders, because any advantage they can have is worth it. The game itself doesn't require this kind of min-maxing to beat.
So, denying character builds because 0.00000001% of the population would actually kick you for not being optimal is a very weak excuse...

Plenty of non-world first raiders optimize because they do matter in the content they're participating in, and in the context in which they are participating is said content for. Just because the rest of the game makes them irrelevant with its faceroll content doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Hamada]

Nice strawmans. Try to refute the points instead of posting nonsense like this. Or, perhaps, you respond like this because you have no argument?

I'll maybe address the rest of your points later when I have the time (heading to class), but this literally made me pause and then laugh out loud. It's real hard to take any arguments you have seriously when you resort to comments like these.

I am just going to second this. The whole thing has giving me a headache but to magic mal, homin is right, that statement is a .. well I would call it more of a red herring but regardless I agree with the point. Lets try to keep comments like that out of the conversation?

For the topic itself, they really really need to stop repeating the same content, with the only difference is a new ilevel increase. I been doing the same thing since ARR, that really needs to change, same idea behind doing expert, same 450 tomes, same 24 raid, same overall format. People have different tolerances of doing something like that, but everyone has a breaking point.

The only people where those stats matter are the world-first contenders, because any advantage they can have is worth it. The game itself doesn't require this kind of min-maxing to beat.
So, denying character builds because 0.00000001% of the population would actually kick you for not being optimal is a very weak excuse...

so gimping yourself is ok because the game is not hard? sounds legit.

[Reynhart]

so gimping yourself is ok because the game is not hard? sounds legit.

Calling "losing less than 5% of your personal DPS" gimping is still the same overreaction everybody has. Basically, if you don't have a parser, you won't even notice...

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Calling "losing less than 5% of your personal DPS" gimping is still the same overreaction everybody has. Basically, if you don't have a parser, you won't even notice...

Hmm, let's ask how the Machinists and Bards feel about not having a Dragoon around seeing 5% is precisely what they lose without Disembowel. Seeing how it's been a frequent request the devs remove piercing entirely even from the JP side, I'd say a lot of people care. Saying "well don't parse" is basically saying "remain blissfully ignorant." It's a non-argument.

I mean, if you're going to say it doesn't matter. Why bother getting the higher ilvl to begin with?

[HyoMinPark]

Calling "losing less than 5% of your personal DPS" gimping is still the same overreaction everybody has. Basically, if you don't have a parser, you won't even notice...

It doesn’t change that the difference is still there. In a raid setting, which we were talking about a raid setting, you will be hard pressed to not find at least 1 individual parsing. Usually there are more than just one, and a lot of raiders do care about things like damage. There’s a reason people that enjoy optimization follow BiS and practice optimal rotations and align their damage buffs for bursts. As for the “losing less than 5% of your personal DPS”... well BRD/MCH loses 5% simply by not having a DRG, and we all know how much they dislike that. People care: about damage, about substats, about whether or not they’re being gimped; just because you may not doesn’t change that.

People are more than welcome to gimp themselves if they so please. I don’t understand it, but I don’t control them. However, they will be suboptimal and there is no other way to argue that. Just like advocating for STR on a RDM is wrong and suboptimal, advocating a pure Skill Speed build on a job like MCH is also wrong and suboptimal. People can do whatever, but don’t advocate that what you’re (general) doing is revolutionary.

[MoroMurasaki]

Calling "losing less than 5% of your personal DPS" gimping is still the same overreaction everybody has. Basically, if you don't have a parser, you won't even notice...

I assume you've never wiped to a low % enrage? Or, inversely, killed something as it's enrage was casting?

5% can literally be the difference between a clear and a wipe.

People can do whatever, but don’t advocate that what you’re (general) doing is revolutionary.

It's not revolutionary it's just showing ignorance to facts and disrespect to any party they join.

Stuffing your fingers in your ears and running around melding what is clearly suboptimal especially if you intend to run content with an enrage is inconsiderate at best and malicious at worst.