We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Reynhart]

There is a stark difference between not having access to better gear and purposely choosing to make sub-optimal decisions because you think it's fun.

It also depend on how "sub-optimal" it is. If you can have more fun by only losing a fragment of your efficiency, no one will really care about that. Besides, you could also have builds more inclined toward soloing, with more emphasis on self-preservation, that would be gimped in group content, but that could still be interesting.

And finally, since most people probably level several jobs, it's not that surreal to think that they would probably chose the optimal setup for their main job, while retaining more freedom when doing less demanding content with their alts.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Tho I'm curious... other then Rath being puinshing what issues does it have? All it tells me is the playerbase is HORRIBLE.

I love you btw.. don't hate me. I'm not attacking you. I just love rath being so different... hell I'm farming it. And I DON'T farm primals. Rath got me to farm. Thats a win for me.

Lol, it's ok I don't hate you or think you're attacking me.

Rath being different is great. My issue with Rath is the healing concept. I understand why they did it, I just don't like it. Others echo'd the same sentiment. DPS jobs are barely engaging, so when you fetter a healer to basically be a DPS (more than they already are) and their rotations consist of 1-3 skills spammed ad-nausea it shows negatively.

To whoever thinks getting rid of Yoshi P will fix the game I got news for you. It won't. I don't care who replaces him it won't do anything. Yoshi isn't the person who needs to be replaced... he has bosses you know. He answers to them and suits. So whoever you think will - make the game better- won't if the suits keep on with their same plan. The ONLY way to change anything is for the game to drop insane numbers to where the SUITS and YP's bosses worry.. until then you could put anyone in his seat. Won't change much at all.

This is your opinion and that's fine to voice it, but you mention "suits keeping on with their plan". Do you have any clarification on this? What plan? is this something you know for a fact?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It also depend on how "sub-optimal" it is. If you can have more fun by only losing a fragment of your efficiency, no one will really care about that. Besides, you could also have builds more inclined toward soloing, with more emphasis on self-preservation, that would be gimped in group content, but that could still be interesting.

And finally, since most people probably level several jobs, it's not that surreal to think that they would probably chose the optimal setup for their main job, while retaining more freedom when doing less demanding content with their alts.

Those options exist though. Warrior has builds which favor a very fast paced GCD or slower. VIT melds sacrifice some damage for self-preservation in terms of higher HP. While we don't have solo focused builds, that's by and large because the devs prefer people play together given it's a MMO. That being said, you can easily solo everything 50 and below, and even some 60 stuff.

And again, you can do that. There is a difference between having sub-optimal stats because you can't obtain the gear (weekly locks) and doing something like 3,000 SkS on Machinist which accomplishes nothing except reducing your damage for no good reason. It's being unique for unique's sake.

[NicolasTX12]

I agree we need to talk about the state of the game and how it's working right now. I started playing recently (+- one year ago) and i'm already not excited how it used to be, because of the lack of content.
But I try my best to see both sides, the side of the community and the side of Square Enix, I think they got a lot of decisions to do right now, the community in this is complete unbundled in terms of feedback to the developers and this makes things really hard about how to proceed. I see people complaining about raiding and how it ruins the experience, but I raided the entire 4.0 tier with a fix group (4 times a week) and being amoung raiders I can feel the game also needs changes in raiding stuff (Would love to see more bosses per tier, not much but 6 instead of 4 would be great). And that's what I talking about, the unbundled of the community is making things harder than it should be because people always disagree with something, people who raid cried quite sometime because after farming savage there was nothing good to too, so they launched ultimate and people who even don't raid savage wanted to do ultimate (because reasons). I mean, if we are a community we need to see not only our/one side, Final Fantasy XIV is the first MMO I ever played where the developers are actually trying to listen to the playerbase (see other big mmo's GD, WoW it's a big complaining about everything right now, ESO, GW2, BDO, and the devs don't even bother to anwser to players and receive/implement the feedback).
That's all for me folks, I hope someday the community of Final Fantasy XIV unify together to take huge steps in terms of developing a better game for everyone, maybe people need to stop concentrating on themselves and start to concentrate as a whole.

[Reynhart]

Those options exist though. Warrior has builds which favor a very fast paced GCD or slower. VIT melds sacrifice some damage for self-preservation in terms of higher HP.

Problem is that apart from a very specific value, those build only do raw damage...mainly because all stats only increase damage. It would be different if each stat had some kind of unique flavor. For example, let's take Critical Hit. In Dragon Quest, doing a critical is not just more damage, it also ignores defense. You could technically have some targets with a very high defense that would favor critical builds, even if the damage on paper would be lower than a Det or DH build. If Skillspeed actually increase the number of auto-attacks instead of their damage, it would also be helpful for effects such a Sword Oath or Blood Weapon...

While we don't have solo focused builds, that's by and large because the devs prefer people play together given it's a MMO. That being said, you can easily solo everything 50 and below, and even some 60 stuff.

With content like Deep Dungeon, Eureka, and the decent number of solo duties, I think those kind of builds could be useful.

[HyoMinPark]

\Stats just dont matter at all which is why more and more people are getting fed up with the treadmill and endless grinds for trash gear thats incredibly dull and boring.... also why players have been asking for more interesting stats since even the earliest days of 2.0.

The current stats basically do nothing. a level 50 blm with 300-350 spell speed casts flare the exact same speed a level 70 blm does with 1600-1700 spell speed. there is literally no difference.. crit is the same. a level 50 bard with a few hundred crit lands just as many crits even on a level 1 striking dummy as a level 70 bard with 1700 crit... all these extra stats but they literally do nothing.

If the stats “didn’t matter”, why is it that tank BiS for the last two tiers has chosen pentamelded crafted accessories over the Savage or Tomestone accessories? Clearly they do for jobs to favor gear 20 item levels below cap over the ones offered that are at cap. If they don’t matter, why do jobs like NIN and DRG avoid Skill Speed? Why does BRD favor Crit so much? Why does MCH have builds with varying amounts of Skill Speed (and varying GCDs) just so that they can perform without too heavy of an impact from latency/GCD clipping?

I can also tell you with certainty that my alt with her BRD in Poetics gear does not have a consistent 40+% crit rate with regards to her rotation the way my main does in her High Crit BiS. There is a difference; just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there. BRDs wouldn’t sacrifice DEX if Crit didn’t make a difference for them, yet they do. Take a BRD with a buff that enhances critical hit rate and they suddenly have spikes in damage—if the stat increase (or the stats in general) didn’t matter, that increase wouldn’t be there, nor would it be significant enough for BRDs to warrant clipping their DoTs early to snapshot.

Again, just because you don’t personally see the gains doesn’t mean that they aren’t there.

I wouldn’t mind having more stats, but it would probably end up just like critical hit rate always does: by the end of the expansion, it is the most valued because it scales the best, where as the others usually always have thresholds where they stop becoming useful and start becoming useless. This has already happened with some jobs and critical hit rate over direct hit—they take enough direct hit to hit a threshold and then start stacking crit.

[Miste]

Which is why I said that raiders were partially to blame, not to be blamed entirely for it
Like I said earlier in this post, partial blame.

You don't have any proof to claim raiders had even partial blame, you do realize that right? Full or partial doesn't matter for my point from the beginning that you have no proof to put blame.

We simply don't know the full reasons for anything SE does. So, like I said before, you cannot place blame on anyone except SE because you lack the facts to do that.

Either prove it with facts (which you have no access to since you don't work at SE), or give up (you might as well since again you have no proof), you can't win this argument that raiders deserve any blame for anything. The truth is you don't know, we don't know, no one but SE knows. So you can't throw blame or anything else to do with SE's decisions on to any one group in the player community.

[Magic-Mal]

Except every job doesn't play the same in PvP. It's trash now because they pruned far too many skills, removed all CC aspect and left it an imbalanced mess. Likewise, while the end result may be the same jobs play different in PvE. The old cross-class system didn't work any better than what we have now. You took the skills that best suited your job or you looked foolish. A Monk too lazy to level Dragoon for Blood for Blood wasn't trying out some special new build, they were simply lazy. Just like healers who refuse to slot Esuna now are frequently yelled at when content demands that skill and they don't have access to it.

I didn't say all jobs are the same as other jobs in PvP. Maybe I said it the wrong way. All BRDs are the same. All MNKs are the same. Everyone follows a very restricted rotation. Even against high level PvPers you know exactly what every monk will do because they have nothing else they CAN do. It was all deleted. Did you forget all those skills and CC actually made a difference? You can't differentiate yourself from others now. But that seems to be the problem you have. Wanting to be different = wanting to be special = not needed because it's not the best math-wise

You glossed over everything I said about the early leveling experience which is totally bad right now. Yes there were things like Raging Strikes, Blood For Blood and Internal Release that people took because they were pretty much needed but there were other skills like Foresight, Keen Flurry, Bloodbath, Feint, Mercy Stroke, Flash etc, that actually affected the gameplay. Unlike the 60% of every role ability each class has that are completely useless in any content which used to just be regular attacks with an effect before anyway. Why they removed all the abilities just to put them back in but with no damage attached and deleting the cross class system is BEYOND ME.

As a BRD duoing PotD, Feint was a staple for me because the Slow effect completely gimped casting enemies making them easier to defeat. I got rid of Invigorate for Second Wind and another skill for Bloodbath. Can I do that now? Nope. They took my choice away. Remember when SMN and SCH had Blizzard II and SCH had Aero? Bye bye choices.

Now you're just being willfully obtuse. Secondary stats do allow for some customization. In fact, most jobs have at least two BiS sets, though several have upwards of 4-5. Your example of just been silly extremes because again, you want to be special.

So basically... the illusion of choice because there's always one that's mathed out to be the best. It's an illusion of choice because any other armor set up is "wrong" and those few BiS armor sets are the right ones. Making it pointless to wear anything other than those certain sets, therefore making it not a choice.

Also I'm not trying to be special. Do you see me putting in Skill Speed into my MCHs and DRGs? No. I do tend to follow what makes me the strongest. However if I have an idea to make something and it doesn't harm my do to broken extents I, and anyone else should be able to do so. Maybe I should push my BRD Skill Speed to 2.29 GCD. Just so you can be upset that I exist even though you don't see or interact with me.

There is a stark difference between not having access to better gear and purposely choosing to make sub-optimal decisions because you think it's fun.

Is anyone hurting your feelings doing so? Is a person with a stupid build clearing Kefka in Mateus hurt your feelings over there in Cactuar in what I assume to be your static?

None of your examples refute the fact it's all an illusion of choice. That doesn't mean we should remove all choice entirely, but to willfully gimp yourself because you want to try something new is just you screaming "I want to be special!!!!!" If you have a group of like-minded people, go nuts. But if you're grouping with randoms, it's just inconsiderate.

1. Implying randoms will 100% always be pure BiS and peak performance and will care or even notice a person's stats. Lol. If a Lancer is in Ridorana doing high DPS and even outdpsing others, I guarantee you you're not the problem and no one will kick you. At most people will be laughing at the fact a Lancer is there.

2. You seem so against this "illusion of choice", okay. What's your idea of an online game that's done correctly that doesn't have a theorycrafted solution to render everything else subpar and creating an illusion of choice? Name one online game.

[ko_]

Lol, it's ok I don't hate you or think you're attacking me.

Rath being different is great. My issue with Rath is the healing concept. I understand why they did it, I just don't like it. Others echo'd the same sentiment. DPS jobs are barely engaging, so when you fetter a healer to basically be a DPS (more than they already are) and their rotations consist of 1-3 skills spammed ad-nausea it shows negatively.



This is your opinion and that's fine to voice it, but you mention "suits keeping on with their plan". Do you have any clarification on this? What plan? is this something you know for a fact?

I mean other than what're they are doing now, buisness being what it is. OTher than that I mention that only cause Yoshi's mention in the past about bosses. Not in a bad way but things like the mogstation being a good example. He has no say in that what so ever. A completely different team is in charge of that and nothing he says will change what they do. Do I have hardcore facts no, but I do know he's not the big wig for SE which means he has to have a boss. Even if it's justt the dudes in suits collecting a check not knowing how any of this works. But they aren't goign to randomly change the game cause a few fans want them too. Money has to stop to a point where they stop being happy with their amount. If we want REAL change. Can someone come and offer fresh ideas that makes most of the playerbase happy. Sure. I bet they can, but simply thinking getting rid of YP is the answer to all answers from a buisness point of view is the wrong answer I feel, and knowing how companies are, changing him will do little if anything at all. Hell in most cases it'll doom the project more offen than not. YP doing what he did for ARR is not a normal thing. Thats one of the reasons he's so loved. Saving a game that DIED is not something everyone can do. - But that is just my opinion on the matter with how companies work. Also PLEASE DON'T HATE ME T.T!!!!!!-

PS. I only say that cause words on the net are horrible displaying tone and I want to make clear even tho I seem to be on the other side of this debate I say my opinion with all the respect for you and the other person. T.T I know things get heated and I'm no better as I mgiht be known to a few people as jumpingthe gun and getting hostle... so yeah. PLEASE :O-- I could be wrong so who knows. I just don't think booting YP is the answer.

[HyoMinPark]

Maybe I should push my BRD Skill Speed to 2.29 GCD. Just so you can be upset that I exist even though you don't see or interact with me.

Is anyone hurting your feelings doing so? Is a person with a stupid build clearing Kefka in Mateus hurt your feelings over there in Cactuar in what I assume to be your static?

Nice strawmans. Try to refute the points instead of posting nonsense like this. Or, perhaps, you respond like this because you have no argument?

I'll maybe address the rest of your points later when I have the time (heading to class), but this literally made me pause and then laugh out loud. It's real hard to take any arguments you have seriously when you resort to comments like these.