We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Magic-Mal]

I clipped parts down to keep character count as low as I could.

What you are failing to realize here is that maximum item level does not necessarily mean the best (the i370 Aiming body exists, after all)[cont.]

I’m not opposed to adding more options, but they may not necessarily be “the best”[cont.]

I never said max ilvl equaled best! That's not what I was referring to. It takes ilvl and stats to make it best. The reason why I bring up ilvl is because an i360 piece lacks the VIT, STR/DEX/INT/MND, and Defense/Magic Defense gains and the higher secondary stat cap of an i370 piece. So a crafted i360 compared to the same crafted piece but augmented to i370 is worse. I didn't miss it. It simply didn't change my point. A 370 chest with Crit/Det is better than a 350 chest with Crit/Det. The means of obtaining it no one knows. I'm talking about no longer needing to have to deal with having i350 and i360 stuff and just being able to have it all be i370. So "Peak" status for those who are very into mathematical BiS.

And yes I stat options are random. I went more into that further down

At that point, all other MCHs are looking at that MCH and scratching their head[cont.]

That's that MCH's choice and other MCHs scratching their heads doesn't have to matter if they aren't in the same groups. They're irrelevant. I also highly doubt a weird build would weaken the player so much that they can't clear something like Kefka with adequate DPS. Savage isn't made to need BiS. Ultimate is a totally different beast there.

We may not have the resources necessary to create such extreme sets but that's because the game doesn't support enough gear options for that. That much is obvious. Doesn't mean it can't in the future.

Your ire seems to stem from the fact that these options (there are more than 2 for BiS for multiple jobs; I’ve said that multiple times) require raid gear and aren’t completely reliant on gear you can get outside of raids[cont.]

If you only cared about item level, this wouldn’t be an issue. But you clearly do care about more than just that. That’s kind of why your MCH example confuses me[cont.]

I'm aware that the other options might not always have what I want. The point is that the bigger the pool of choices at random, the more possible combinations to make something new. If the pants I want have the stats I want but are from a raid? I'll do the raid just to get that piece because I want it. I've said that many times already in fact. I'll get my piece and likely not even continue the raid. You wouldn't see me in Ultimate either. I just wanted the piece and needed the raid to get it. My motive is mine alone.

Secondly, when I ask for more options, I'm also acknowledging that stats on gear pieces are random, and that others don't have to adhere to my BiS, your BiS, or theorycrafter's BiS. Simply because I don't care about what other people put on that's suboptimal because I have no business deciding what they put in. I'm not going to kick a MCH with 3,000 skill speed from my Kefka party because of their gear, I'll kick them because they don't know the fight of their job. None of that means you have to do the same. You want everyone to be optimal? Not a problem.

I question why a player would willingly pick something subpar, if they are aware that it’s subpar. I can at least understand if they are unaware of how subpar something is, but if they already know? Why willingly choose it?

Because they want to. That's pretty much it. If they want to be subpar they should have that choice. They don't have to associate with people who care more about proper stats and people who care about proper stats don't have to associate with people who have subpar.

Keep in mind that when I talk about people playing MCH with 3,000 Skill Speed(That was just a made up ridiculous number), I'm talking about what other people could do. I certainly wouldn't follow it because I'm aware Skill Speed isn't the best stat for MCH. But I'm not going to say that the game shouldn't allow that person to have that choice. Especially since there really isn't any reason not to because well.. because. If I want to have an all Critical Hit and Direct Hit build, I should have that choice. Not like I'd be in your groups and if I can do more than enough DPS(Or even just enough) to clear without issue, I am not a hindrance to the clear. At best I'd be a hindrance to a speed clear if my BiS isn't best. What really matters in a fight is knowing how to play the job and do the mechanics.

If you’re referring to the ARR elemental weapons[cont.]

I was talking about Monster Hunter: World. It has an almost endless amount of "suboptimal" skills and is very much an online game. If someone is kicked out from a group, big whoop. They aren't the leader. If the leader let's a naked person join their group it's the leader's choice. That naked person might even play better than the armored ones. There is only one best setup mathematically. Everything else is subpar, technically.

[Aster_E]

I know that some people are inherently luckier than others, but I must reiterate something I've been saying for ages:

SE needs to stop relying on heavy doses of rng, and rng should not be what decides whether or not you progress in anything.

I spent a good while accumulating 130 Command V materia so I could over meld it and be that much more ready for 4.4 crafting. Eight mainhand weapons' third slots at 10% each, a belt's last slot at 5%, and the headpiece's fifth slot at 5%; how well do you think that went?

I went into Eureka and joined a Louhi prep group that even agreed to do chimeras during the day. After an hour of killing lots of level 40 mobs, including two sprites at what is theorized to be the best times to kill them, I got all of two ticks of feeble light. Two! Compare that to an hour of doing the sleeping dragons where I could have filled a whole bar on their feeble lights.

Seriously. It's just wanton aggravation instead of good gameplay, and there's nothing I can really do to improve my odds on this stuff that is pretty much required to progress. That is one of my biggest gripes with this game is how much the devs love to bar progression behind RNG, which is already bad enough. Grinding out so much of anything, only for that same, unwelcome RNG to smack me down and say try again later? That is terrible design, not just "lol just get lucky." Do I want to wait until the content is no longer relevant to bother playing it? No. I don't even want to play Pagos, and am trying to get done with it already (I'm so close and yet so far). I don't want to keep grinding away a couple hours of my time for gathering and crafting 30-40 collectibles just for seven or eight materia that will only blow up, either. This kind of design is as lazy as it is lousy.

[Magic-Mal]

That isn't a choice but an illusion. You're either ignorant to superior builds or purposely being a hindrance. In a single player game, it impacts no one else. In a MMO, you're actively making it more difficult because you want to feel special. Can a Machinist with 3,000 Skill Speed beat God Kefka? Yes. But all you've accomplished is weakening your own damage to the point why bother upgrading at all? There is literally no point to obtaining i370 gear if you're going to willfully gimp yourself with silly stat builds.

I remember when I too, used to always say "illusion of choice" then FFXIV got boring. Look at PvP. It's trash right now and everyone is exactly the same. Same HP, same MP, same damage, same skills, same traits, and same flat rotation with no way to play differently from one another. They removed the cross-class system so everyone in PvE is exactly the same and the leveling experience is brutal. No more using Death Blossom on PGL to have an AoE advantage at a lower level because that's an illusion of choice. No more playing CNJ with Raging Strikes, Blood For Blood, and Internal Release doing ridiculous healer DPS because illusion of choice. No more Keen Flurry on BRD to possibly reduce incoming damage by 20% and save your life(it definitely did for me many times) because that's an illusion of choice. No gear progression or anything meaningful in armor because that's an illusion of choice. That's what happens when the "illusion" is removed. Flatness. Shallow gameplay.

I ask again, if someone not adhering to the BiS build "extra attack choices" that theorycrafters created is being suboptimal and a detriment to groups and that makes deciding to have "different" stats pointless and an illusion of choice why not just have all gear be just VIT with a STR/DEX/INT/MND stat on it? Boom no more illusion of choice. No more suboptimal players.

Your example omits the fact most people want to become more powerful. And in a team, your expected to bring your A game. While it may be entirely possible to kill things in MHW practically naked, if you showed up like that most people are going to kick you for wasting their time. You're not experimenting with new builds, you're simply being a detriment because again, you want to feel special. Do that on your own time; with other like-minded people. Don't waste mine.

I certainly don't have whatever is the supposed best and I never got kicked from any parties. If not looking up the mathematically best set up and copying it is detrimental to your team then I won't be wasting your time for sure. I would never end up in your group. But I can assure you I beat things just fine.

[ko_]

To whoever thinks getting rid of Yoshi P will fix the game I got news for you. It won't. I don't care who replaces him it won't do anything. Yoshi isn't the person who needs to be replaced... he has bosses you know. He answers to them and suits. So whoever you think will - make the game better- won't if the suits keep on with their same plan. The ONLY way to change anything is for the game to drop insane numbers to where the SUITS and YP's bosses worry.. until then you could put anyone in his seat. Won't change much at all.

[Reynhart]

To whoever thinks getting rid of Yoshi P will fix the game I got news for you. It won't. I don't care who replaces him it won't do anything. Yoshi isn't the person who needs to be replaced... he has bosses you know. He answers to them and suits.

Tanaka had the same bosses for 1.0 than Yoshida for ARR, so...

[ko_]

Tanaka had the same bosses for 1.0 than Yoshida for ARR, so...

That follows what i said. The bosses wanted a change too. It was failing. Xiv isnt in that state so expecting the same results is Kind of odd. Now when we get to 1.0 type failing. Then we'll talk. But expecting someone else to do what yoshi did just cause you hate the current systen is crazy. The current system as flawed as it is is making those same bosses happy. That needs to change. Which is my point.

[Dzian]

I question why a player would willingly pick something subpar, if they are aware that it’s subpar. I can at least understand if they are unaware of how subpar something is, but if they already know? Why willingly choose it?

Because they want to. That's pretty much it. If they want to be subpar they should have that choice. They don't have to associate with people who care more about proper stats and people who care about proper stats don't have to associate with people who have subpar.

In this game i'd say for a lot of people it just doesn't matter. the general rule of thumb is just equip whatever the highest ilevel and go. Gear just doesnt last long enough to worry about tweaking stats or melding or any of that junk. I generally don't even look at the stats anymore because they're ultimately meaningless. my sam has a full set of 370 tome gear with a hoh weapon. zero melds.. my scholar has a full 360 set from lighthouse zero melds my blm has a load of tome stuff at 370 some unaugmented at 360 zero melds. my pld has 360 lighthouse stuff zero melds..

With perhaps a small handful of exceptions higher ilevel is virtually always going to be better just because of the increase in primary stats... and generally speakingit's never going to matter anyway as gear is generally always 20-30 ilevels higher than content... so even with apparantly sub optimal stats players still massively overpower encounters.

Stats just dont matter at all which is why more and more people are getting fed up with the treadmill and endless grinds for trash gear thats incredibly dull and boring.... also why players have been asking for more interesting stats since even the earliest days of 2.0.

The current stats basically do nothing. a level 50 blm with 300-350 spell speed casts flare the exact same speed a level 70 blm does with 1600-1700 spell speed. there is literally no difference.. crit is the same. a level 50 bard with a few hundred crit lands just as many crits even on a level 1 striking dummy as a level 70 bard with 1700 crit... all these extra stats but they literally do nothing.

[Reynhart]

The current system as flawed as it is is making those same bosses happy. That needs to change. Which is my point.

If more and more people point out that the current direction is less and less appealing, it might reach their ears. The problem is that it feels like Yoshi-P isn't even aware of the problem when you read some interviews, so even if a decision is taken, he might not even know how to "fix" the game. Funny thing though, he stated in an interview that he was free to take the game wherever he wanted back in Heavensward.

Finally, we don't expect the same kind of shift from 1.0 to 2.0, since the game is still in a much better shape than back then, but having someone new either as Producer or Director might bring something fresh to the game. IIRC, Yoshida himself said that he would be glad if someone else took one of his role (Can't remember which one).

[Maero]

I agree a large part is the suits that like to pocket the money and use our sub money for other SE projects rather then re-inject into this game, this needs to change though i know it will not.

Bringing in a new Director can be a double edge sword, it could all go to hell rather then be new and improved.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I remember when I too, used to always say "illusion of choice" then FFXIV got boring. Look at PvP. It's trash right now and everyone is exactly the same. Same HP, same MP, same damage, same skills, same traits, and same flat rotation with no way to play differently from one another. They removed the cross-class system so everyone in PvE is exactly the same and the leveling experience is brutal. No more using Death Blossom on PGL to have an AoE advantage at a lower level because that's an illusion of choice. No more playing CNJ with Raging Strikes, Blood For Blood, and Internal Release doing ridiculous healer DPS because illusion of choice. No more Keen Flurry on BRD to possibly reduce incoming damage by 20% and save your life(it definitely did for me many times) because that's an illusion of choice. No gear progression or anything meaningful in armor because that's an illusion of choice. That's what happens when the "illusion" is removed. Flatness. Shallow gameplay.

I ask again, if someone not adhering to the BiS build "extra attack choices" that theorycrafters created is being suboptimal and a detriment to groups and that makes deciding to have "different" stats pointless and an illusion of choice why not just have all gear be just VIT with a STR/DEX/INT/MND stat on it? Boom no more illusion of choice. No more suboptimal players.

Except every job doesn't play the same in PvP. It's trash now because they pruned far too many skills, removed all CC aspect and left it an imbalanced mess. Likewise, while the end result may be the same jobs play different in PvE. The old cross-class system didn't work any better than what we have now. You took the skills that best suited your job or you looked foolish. A Monk too lazy to level Dragoon for Blood for Blood wasn't trying out some special new build, they were simply lazy. Just like healers who refuse to slot Esuna now are frequently yelled at when content demands that skill and they don't have access to it. None of your examples refute the fact it's all an illusion of choice. That doesn't mean we should remove all choice entirely, but to willfully gimp yourself because you want to try something new is just you screaming "I want to be special!!!!!" If you have a group of like-minded people, go nuts. But if you're grouping with randoms, it's just inconsiderate.

A perfect example of this is if I queue into Ridorana right now on Lancer. Sure, I'll clear just fine, and probably out-dps some people since I know the job equivalent, but my having fun is putting more work on the group.

Now you're just being willfully obtuse. Secondary stats do allow for some customization. In fact, most jobs have at least two BiS sets, though several have upwards of 4-5. Your example of just been silly extremes because again, you want to be special.

I certainly don't have whatever is the supposed best and I never got kicked from any parties. If not looking up the mathematically best set up and copying it is detrimental to your team then I won't be wasting your time for sure. I would never end up in your group. But I can assure you I beat things just fine.

There is a stark difference between not having access to better gear and purposely choosing to make sub-optimal decisions because you think it's fun.