We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[HyoMinPark]

Okay to be 100% serious for once, I really didn't know the stats changed and no one told me so. Was joking around with the button-pressing stuff. Never had any raider friends in SB. Back in HW Skill Speed was better than Determination so I just followed that. Even knowing now that Determination is actually better it still doesn't change my desire for perfect BiS through different gear sets. I just focus my attention on a different 3rd stat.

Which is fine, and you aren’t incorrect in saying that Skill Speed was preferred over Determination for HW BRD, but SB BRD did change, and there have been a variety of third-party resources dictating this since 4.0 launched.

Stats may change again in 5.0, so I would recommend going forward, if you want to optimize on the level of substats, search for information from people that will test that. First thing I did when configuring BiS (before any were officially released—this was before Deltascape dropped) was research what Theorycrafters were surmising, and what other top-tier BRDs were surmising so that I would have a foundation to build on when the time for considering substats came—I’m not the greatest with mathing out the gains of substats, so I leave that to the pros; the only knowledge I already had going into my research was that Crit would probably be the most valued, and that was just from reading on how our Repertoire mechanic worked.

I did the same for optimal rotations/openers, since BRD was overhauled so much that the rotation is nothing at all like it was in HW (I miss juggling my 4 damage buffs...).

I did notice things like Pitch Perfect can clip a little into the GCDs but I didn't think it was game-breaking because as I said to Miste, I didn't know the stats changed. I wasn't blatantly melding wrong. I was unknowingly though, as I find out now.

At an optimization level, it does matter. The only time GCD clipping is a gain is typically during a Minuet+RS window (usually involves triple-weaving a 3-stack PP with Barrage+EA if you don’t get an RA proc—even then, the BRD Kings have advised of alternate ways to try and avoid this...just sometimes it’s not that easy when RNG is throwing procs at you), or in Mage’s Ballad with Bloodletter + EA + Bloodletter. But this is getting into the optimization of BRD, which is another conversation for another time. Just know that GCD clipping on any job is not a good thing, nor a desirable thing lol.

2.40 and that's the limit? Well, just going to say, you can definitely go faster... You just need uh, a lot more than 982.

With current BiS, that’s as high as we go—because the 2 Tomestone Rings give us Skill Speed (our headpiece does, too, as well as a couple pieces), and we begrudgingly take them in high crit builds because we also gain a substantial amount of Crit. We don’t want to meld Skill Speed. That’s the point I’m trying to make here; not that you can “go higher”. You certainly can, but BRDs don’t want to go higher (it feels absolutely awful, in my opinion...).

Speculation now is that, in 4.4, Crit will become king again with regards to substats. Our skill priority probably won’t change all that much (Crit > D.Hit > Det), but we may take higher skill speed builds if we gain a substantial amount of Crit at the same time. 4.4 will tell us when we see the substats on i400 Tomestone gear versus the Savage gear (and maybe even crafted, because High Crit uses a pentamelded i350 bracelet simply because we can shove 100+ Crit into it).

But I digress; this is, again, getting into BRD optimization, which is another conversation for another time.

Oh I did buy stuff. BRD is still wearing the hat. I actually got those very boots and my MCH wears them now. My SMN has O2S boots too. I can't remember which jewelry pieces they have but both have either hand-me-downs from BRD or what ever I got from extra books. Regardless I still can't stand the system. That's why I'm here!

The system has room for improvements (specifically with using higher-tier books for buying lower-tier items, especially since the first floor always has the most in terms of loot with accessories + belt), but I’ll take it over the Coil system where you didn’t get any tokens to save up for later. You either got your loot, or it didn’t drop, and you were forced to wait until it did. There was no “Well, I didn’t get it this week either, but next week I’ll have 4/6/8 books, so I can buy it instead”—it was “Well, it didn’t drop this week either... maybe next week...” > Next week comes along > “Well, it didn’t drop this week either... maybe next week...” > ad nauseam.

The coffer is also a great addition to the final floor, as now that’s even less RNG to deal with—in a static, everyone will have their weapon guaranteed by the 8th clear if you allow each person to get a coffer each clear, and they’ll still have 8 pages to spend on something else they want—be it for another job or their main. This may not apply to PUGs, but that’s why I run with a static (aside from wanting consistency with regards to performance and strats): I don’t have to fight for gear in there, or for gear upgrade pieces (Polishes and Twines/Weaves).

As for the drops themselves, if you mean “My piece hasn’t dropped yet, and it’s been three weeks now”, that’s just RNG doing its thing. It’s present in everything in this game. The game gives you more to work with despite RNG than it did back in ARR (pages); and a bit more now in SB than it did in HW (weapon coffers). I’m not sure what aspect you specifically dislike (RNG or the pages), but there are always worse alternatives (and there have been in the past). And the RNG will never go anywhere; it’s the developers shallow way of keeping people in the content/keeping people subbed.

[TaiyoShikasu]

But I repeatedly switch between BRD and MCH. Why go through all that trouble over and over again for something so simple?

I legit don't even have MCH unlocked, but I'm pretty sure outside of the weapon, what's good for one is good for the other. Especially with the issues MCH supposedly has, high skill speed is probably the worst thing ever.

[HyoMinPark]

I legit don't even have MCH unlocked, but I'm pretty sure outside of the weapon, what's good for one is good for the other. Especially with the issues MCH supposedly has, high skill speed is probably the worst thing ever.

I definitely don’t play MCH on a Savage level (or at all, really), but for Sigmascape, there were a couple of different builds for it (based primarily on GCD—2.47, 2.46, and 2.42), and they do use a few different pieces from BRD—primarily the headpiece and the boots, and sometimes the belt, but the headpiece and belts were interchangeable between Savage and Tomestone depending on the build you went for (which I’m guessing was reliant on your latency because, well, it’s MCH after all). Most was shared, though. I can’t speak for Deltascape if the gearsets were shared or not, though; it’s been too long lol.

[Claviusnex]

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Even Diadem 2.0 they added a weapon better than savage one, it was i280 when savage was i275, if SE was really listening to raider complaints why did they do the same exact thing twice? (and this time it wasn't even just the same item level, it was higher!)

It makes no sense.

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Actually there is some logic to this. It is very common for players in MMO's to do content they don't want to because the reward is something too good to pass up. In fact it is a common complaint among raiders that they feel forced to run optional or lower level content in order to obtain an item for progression. Diadem 2.0 having the highest ilvl would have this type negative incentive that could draw the higher skill folks. The result is a longer life for Diadem as more players went there. Whether SE was smart enough to think this is debatable but the underlying theory is one used by many MMO's to appeal to the high level player to provide additional players in content below their skill level.

[Keicho]

ppl cried for easier raids/primaes. since then it feels like the developer dont gives their full potential anymore.
im sure they loved to try out close call mechanic in bosses, like it was on early lvl 50, as you did the raids/primaes without overgear.
now u do a raid or primae in less hours. and tahts not right^^

even the class changes, u cant even do lvl 50/60 content sync anymore, bcs u miss the skills from there. tahts a big problem.
i even hate ppl can do lvl 50 content with lvl 70 and still get title and horse which i worked weeks for it. i needed alone for shiva horse 130 rounds until i got the damn horse. and taht was lvl 50. it was a long fight, not hard but still long. i have all the shards in my retainer.

i hate it, since lvl 60 began it got all worse. i heard casual ppl cried about its to hard, and well. 80% of players are casual.

i dont even like to play the game anymore bcs taht. i loved to do lvl 50 raids and primae. titan was so difficult below ilvl 100
ramuh was something less ppl killed, it was like "you did it" and it was an amazing feeling.. you killed ramuh ex, taht was something realy special. when i kill a raid/primae now i just feel nothing.. i did the new primae first try in ex, with only 1 wipe. thats a shame SE.

even T5 made me so happy to clear. so many ppl feared the fight.. and t9 even more.. there was plenty ppl able to kill t9 even with ilvl 130 and "noob" buff. i did it with around ilvl 105 and i was so happy to be one of the less ppl got through it. i never had a feeling ppl got mad they dont got it, they keep trying.

now when ppl wipe they get mad. lol. lvl 50 u wiped 1-2month on a raid. with my riad group i needed around 2 month (2-3 a week) for t10. bcs the positioning and coordination was like.. someone step wrong it was a wipe, to less dps wipe.. i loved that. and im sure im not alone.
i felt so happy to play this game, for around 2 years. now i feel nothing.. i just log in for my house, maybe do some beast tribe quests.. tahts it.. the primae/raids dont give me the kick anymore^^

im sure they lost their interesst in doing big work in it, tahts how i feel like. bcs the casual cry for baby content^^ it is okay. but then give veteran players waht they need.^^

please Square enix. we want hard fights back.

Actually there is some logic to this. It is very common for players in MMO's to do content they don't want to because the reward is something too good to pass up. In fact it is a common complaint among raiders that they feel forced to run optional or lower level content in order to obtain an item for progression. Diadem 2.0 having the highest ilvl would have this type negative incentive that could draw the higher skill folks. The result is a longer life for Diadem as more players went there. Whether SE was smart enough to think this is debatable but the underlying theory is one used by many MMO's to appeal to the high level player to provide additional players in content below their skill level.

for me only the relic weapon should be beter than the raid. bcs there is much more work to do in it^^

[JohnSpawnVFX]

From what I remember, most of the complaints about the ilvl 280 weapon coming from raiders were actually because it would throw the rankings in "that website" (not sure if I can mention it) into disarray (and it did, they had to put runs after the weapon came out into a seperate section).

[Nezerius]

Diadem 1.0 was never nerfed. Some raiders complained, yes, but the gear stayed i210 (same item level as the savage gear at the time). So SE ignored the raider complaints.

Except it was nerfed. While they didn't nerf the iLvl of the gear, they did nerf the droprate of the i210 stuff. The nerfed droprate, along with the high change to get i210 gear with terrible stats/stat combinations, was enough for the majority to completely drop Diadem. I remember this clearly, because my FC was unfortunate enough to finally unlock the hard mode difficulty shortly after the nerf.

So yes, they did listen to the raiders with Diadem 1.0.

I'd argue that they also listened to the raiders with Diadem 2.0, with how ridiculously rare the i280 weapon was. You were lucky to even see a successful Emergency Mission, and even then there'd only be a chance for one person to get a random i280 weapon (not tied to their job) with random stats (which may not even be good).

So unless you can prove diadem was taken away from us solely due to raiders complaining about the gear in it back in 3.1, with some kind of statement from SE to confirm it, then you shouldn't be using this as a reason to be upset at raiders and/or blame them for things.

While I'm sure others also complained about Diadem 1.0's lack of fun content, raiders were at least partially to blame. The i210 gear, with some luck on stat rolls, threatened to make the Gordias gear obsolete (which was a big deal, with how difficult Gordias was). The devs made sure that didn't happen by nerfing the droprate on Diadem gear. The outcome: Diadem became obsolete, as the one thing that got most players to run it was no longer worthwhile to go after.

[Xlantaa]

May be a unpopular opinion, but we got what people asked. So you cannot say they don't listen to us.

- They gave us extreme primal and raids with a considerable difficulty (or acceptable difficulty). People complain it was "too hard, please nerf". Consequence: Nerfed and easy trials on release and high level raids easier compared to Coil of Bahamut and the first steps of Alexander.

- They add some dungeons with some exploration or different paths. People ignores everything and go straight to the end, speed running multi-pull, even blaming those who are "slow", in order to finish as soon as possible. Consequence: All dungeons are linear, straight forward, with nothing more than mobs to kill.

- People don't want to put any effort and want's everything easy and quick, getting frustrated quick when a single wipe happens. Consequence: Mindless grind, which can be long, but is easy enough to clear pushing 2 buttons.

- People buying every thing is put for sale in Mog-station, regardless they are basically glamour, even paying 6€ for a emote, over and over. Consequence: Mog-Station constantly adding things that we should unlock playing the game normally, because they know will be purchased.

Sorry to say, but was the community who is turning this game into what you call "bad". For me it is still enjoyable and I won't stop playing or say "Devs are lazy". I rather say stop complaining about the hard difficulty. Also, asking things such "give us more interesting dungeons with labyrinth layout and more exploration" when you know people will exploit the quickest and straightest forward path, ignoring the rest of the dungeon, is absurd.

Sorry, but in my opinion, players should change first their attitude if we want devs change theirs. They will adapt whatever players will do.

For me, developers listen to us way too much.

[347SPECTRE]

Personally I'd like to see more mid level difficulty. Not the easy normal mode stuff (With maybe the exception of Shinryu normal at launch) Not quite Savage, somewhere near extreme primal maybe?

[Archchancellor]

Sorry, but in my opinion, players should change first their attitude if we want devs change theirs. They will adapt whatever players will do.

For me, developers listen to us way too much.

This, this a 1000 times this.