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  1. #11
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Another thing backing up the inversion from real-world historical context is that a lot of the Optimates (nobility) work to curry the Emperor's favor, not undermine his authority. Lolorito reached out to Garlemald's upper crust through his merchant network before the Calamity in an effort to dissuade them from going through with Meteor to no avail. One can only presume this was due to wanting the Emperor's favor and thus being unwilling to overtly denounce Meteor.

    Meanwhile we know for a fact that the Populares (populists) want to forge more peaceful relationships with other countries based on our interactions with them during 4.2 and 4.3, and if their label is accurate and the little information we presently have from Thancred regarding the social climate in Garlemald as a result of Tsukuyomi is accurate... the Populares are indeed working for the common folk (as a "liberal" stance seems to be the minority in Garlemald).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    @Cilia: Thanks for this long thoughtful post. (Also many likes for that part about Wow )
    Well, I can't limit my justice-bringing to just one world! [/sarcasm]

    I do believe the Garleans are earnest in their desire to preserve the world, but the question then becomes for whose sake? Their own, of course, and only their own. (Cf. the Eorzeans, who unified to try and prevent the Calamity, fought off Imperial aggression with Operation Archon, lent their aid to Ishgard at the Steps of Faith, and banded together to free Ala Mhigo from Imperial occupation, as well as the Domans (or at least Hien) who lent their aid to Ala Mhigo's liberation as well).

    As for the Imperial leadership being evil...? Well, given Varis' first major act on the stage is to order the extermination of the Zundu tribe despite them not being tempered, calling him "good" is a long stretch. A Well-Intentioned Extremist, perhaps, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions and extremism rarely leads anywhere good. Killing innocents (or at least ordering their deaths) cannot be construed as a good action unless it is absolutely necessary, which is simply not the case there. Even then it's still a stain on the soul of the one who does the deed, necessary or not, that must simply be lived with. The issue is that someone like Varis doesn't consider it a stain on his soul - it's perfectly acceptable to him to murder innocents if it fulfills his ambition; the man himself may not be evil, but from most perspectives his ambitions and the means he is willing to use to achieve those ambitions most definitely are. Subjugating the world... isn't exactly what most people would consider an amicable ambition, regardless of why you have that ambition, and taking a Machiavellian stance to do so is going to do the opposite of making you friends.

    Evil though? Malice for malice's sake? Not quite. Someone whose ambitions need to be kept in check, through force if necessary, due to the death and destruction those ambitions entail? Most definitely.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing - whether it's Varis trying to put the entirety of Hydaelyn beneath his heel, or Sylvanas killing hundreds if not thousands of civilians because nobody is willing to make a moral stand against her. The why behind both cases is understandable and truly morally grey, but the means used to achieve those ends are anything but.
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    Last edited by Cilia; 09-07-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination