Shinryu Normal...

[Thoosa]

I used to let out a big sigh when I got this on roulette but not often anymore. I don’t think it should be nerfed, the mechanics are pretty simple and easily learned.

Tsuki normal on the other hand, I think it’s slightly harder than shinryu but the failure rate is high when this turns up.

[einschwartz]

I did Shinryu for the first time two or three months ago and thus, clearing the MSQ. I was the newbie healer who kept dying every 5 seconds because for a first timer, there are A LOT of things happening. We cleared after 3 wipes (Tidal wave was the cause for one). As much as I was embarrassed that I got carried by other players; not to mention leaving my co-heal friend to solo heal 2/3 of the fight, it left a HUGE impression to me. Which is good! Unlike Thordan trial which...... I have NO MEMORIES of whatsoever.

When I participate in any duty for the first time, I want it to leave an impact. Even if just a little (Thordan did none. What even happened there lol?). This is so I can learn the encounter better by replaying in my head the next time I get the same duty. Yes, wiping can be frustrating. But to the newbies who are willing to challenge themselves, this is a learning process. I really appreciate the patient players who are willing to stay and help us first-timers clear Shinryu. However, I'll leave up to SE/community to decide whether the fight needs to be nerf or otherwise.

Yes? Well, good for those who have limited playtime and wishes to finish the duty as quick as possible.
No? It gives some players the chance tackling the fight better, or enjoy a challenging MSQ trial for once.

My 2 cent as a casual new player.

[Frizze]

I understand the frustration, I do. If I landed in this trial in roulette, I would probably leave it. But, nerfing it is not the answer, because the difficulty is not the problem.

Ive seen this mentality before, and i never understood it. Over the years there have been certain fights that i dreaded getting in a roulette, but the fun of the roulette(at least for me) is not knowing what challenge awaits. Will today be easy(cape westwind), hard(susano is the one i see the most fails on) or something in the middle? If i run into a group that is struggling i do my best to explain and try to lead by example. If i que when i have a limited amount of time to play i try hard to get that clear and give a little extra if i can(ive pushed back going to sleep and meals, but not leaving for work). But leaving is absolutely the last resort.

Side note/change of subject: Is my experience shared by anyone else? Susano and Tsuko have the highest wipe rate right now in trials? In HW the worst was Bis, then Nidhogg. And i didnt play before HW launched, so no personal experience with the world of ARR only - though Chrysalis is my least favorite trial of all(poorly timed fight with 3 seperate spots where you have to stop attacking him and do something else, the meteor phase can still wipe an unprepared party even though its a joke if you do the strat right, and the whole thing takes an annoyingly long time)

[TheMightyMollusk]

I cleared Shinryu on launch weekend, in a party with people in 290 or lower gear. Mostly lower, because the only option to get anything higher was to farm Ala Mhigo, and most of us were rushing to get the story done before spoilers popped up. It only took us three tries, and the first wipe was from Tidal Wave.

If you're still struggling now, all anyone can really say is "learn the mechanics". Shinryu is a fairly busy fight, but it's not hard.

[silverlunarfox]

My only 2 cents to this topic.....Nerfing is never the answer.

[Claire_Pendragon]

... but please SE, consider nerfing Shinyru normal. It is ridiculous that even a year after this, with people having way higher ilvl I see wipes in there as THE NORMAL STATE OF THINGS.

Whats the point in making the final fight easier, when you're going to fight similarly challenging fights right after? 24man/8man content is roughly equal in the amount of mechanics/dodging you do.

Most casuals can't do this content unless they echo their way up or get carried

Nothing wrong with that, most ppl in 24man/8man get carried by all those who have cleared it billions of times.

"players have gotten so much better." No, they haven't. The raiders maybe have, but that's 5-10% or such? Meanwhile most casual players do not have the TIME to hone their skills to higher levels

Hone their skills at what? Moving out of color floor patterns? Using their rotations at the most basic of ways? (and not even doing them well.) There's nothing hard to execute in this fight. There are, however, 3 things that lack conveyance, which is that tanks share ahk mourn, a random DPS gets nuked, and needs to move, and the initial tidal wave, which insta gibs people at the start.
it takes 1 pull to realize how tidal wave works.
the shared tank buster does take a bit more to figure out, so this is the only mechanic the tanks need to figure out, but if a single person knows of it, and tells them, then there's no reason they cant stand together for the TB. Heck they dont even need to pop a CD if in tank stance.
Having a mechanic u need to learn isnt wrong. Heck, how many people refuse to attack the tear in the chrysalis, and how tanks dont pop CDs before entering, so they can take meteors better, still causes groups to wipe repeatedly, and thats a Lv50 fight, not meant to be the last boss. I get more wipes there, than steps of faith. (which btw, steps is super easy, ppl just need to click on things, and u win with low DPS)

Shinyru in it's current state, more often than not, turns into an exercise of "Fail your way to success"

Thats a perfectly fine strategy for easy bosses, and should be the normal for easy bosses. Of course, this tactic only works on easy bosses, and doesnt work on harder bosses... which sort of proves the fight is easy.

despite my latency of 200+ and lag spikes turning everything automatically into Savage mode

Theres nothing in that fight that requires quick reactions. Comparing it to complex mechanics all firing at the same time, requiring both reaction time, multitasking, and keeping up perfect DPS, is a major overstatement.
You can have bad DPS, you can have bad ping (i do as well, with spikes well over 200, which cause me to mess up in savage plenty), you can mess up half "dodges" and still do fine.
Not quite "Savage/EX" difficulty if so.

I am cursed with TOO many people in a party who simply can't handle the mechanics

What mechanics? The tidal wave is a 1 time only mistake, and the tank buster is easy to deal with when u know to just stand near eachother.
As a player who knows the fight, mark the tanks, tell them how it works, and if you must, make a macro that plays a sound <se.1> and spam it at every TB. Trust me, this will fix 90% of the problems.
Otherwise, dont stand in bad, and ignore your DPS rotation if you must. Tell all DPS who keep dying, to ignore their DPS, and focus on survival/dodging the telegraphed markers, you'll clear just fine. heck they can just focus on the tail, which has no mechanics going out, and the tail will do enough dps to kill the boss, even if they auto attack between tails.
This is litterlly steps of faith mechanics, except tanks get tank busters, and DPS are almost always in an AoE marker.

My 1st group wiped twice, despite seeing mechanics in a video, and knowing what to do. I told them to stop trying to DPS and focus on dodging, and we won easil. they were super surprised the fight had such a high iLv requirement to enter, despite being able to nearly auto attack ur way to victory.

Stop treating it like savage, and treat it as Bardum Runs dodge boss, and you'll do fine.

Being alive is more DPS uptime, and healers having MP is more heals for TBs and thrown in DPS.

Needing several wipes to clear content that should be just "simple MSQ" is not what I call good game design.

Why would u need it to be simple?

We know by now the devs put mechanics in there which were meant for Ex, and it shows.

EX/Savage mechanics are; Tank swaps, TBs that actually kill tanks w/o CDs, sometimes w/o stacked CDs, a mechanic thats more complex than simply dodge basic ground AoEs, and nearly invisible AoEs, or AoEs w/o enough time to react to them, ALL on top of needing good rotations performed. (And having multiple things going off at once, rather than just 1 mechanic at a time, even if its "rapid fire" as some call this.)

Leave Ex mechanics in Ex mode, for those who can handle it and want the challenge, don't force it onto the entire player base.

There are no EX mechanics in this fight.
The most basic of EX mechanics that are in every EX fight, aren't in this fight.
Not a single one.

Sharing a TB doesnt require practice to execute. It requires knowledge, but not effort. Tank swapping can require both knowledge, and skill to execute (less so with shirk, but still more than stand on top of eachother)

Boss cant face the wrong way during any tank swaps u decide to do this fight, and theres no positionals, so again, I disagree.
No skill required to execute, and no practice required to get the mechanic down, even if u knew about it.
once u know about the "mechanics" theres no real effort required, outside of the basic new players understanding of "move out of the AoE".

People here saying the fight is easy well taken one at the time the mechanics are not hard but remember at the same time as noticing and reacting to the mechanics you need to do your rotation. And when mechanics start to come at the same time it can become hard to react to everything at once.

You really dont need to do your rotation, which is why the fight is easy.
Its why my bad groups have gotten through it, once i told them to stop worrying about their rotation.

[Driskus]

In my opinion the fight is way too easy now. When half or more of the party typically goes in with 360+ ilvl and 40k+ HP, its actually quite difficult to die, where with i290 and ~26k HP, any significant mistake put you on the floor. I would have preferred if they had set it to sync to around 310-320 instead. Honestly, I see more wipes in Susano and Tsukuyomi now than Shinryu ever caused, even when it was new, simply because you can't just outgear them and ignore everything.

[dragonseth07]

snip

In regards to leaving, things like this can bring out a very not-fun side of me, especially when somebody is full-on suffering from Repeated Identical Failure Syndrome. In the past, I have been VERY toxic to people when they are the cause of group failure. I try to hold myself to a very high standard for fight mechanics, and I don't take it well when other people don't seem to do the same.

It's better for everyone if I just avoid those situations nowadays. I don't have the temperament to deal with it.

[Frizze]

In regards to leaving, things like this can bring out a very not-fun side of me

As is usually the case, we're probly just wired a little differently. Im not going to say i enjoy banging my head against the wall of the ______ who forgets to do _______ every pull, but it takes kinda a lot(usually) to get to me. At first it would be a challenge to see if i could guide these people through, then a challenge to see if i could put up with it long enough for something to finally click(or them to give up, or the party to fall apart). At some point id try to find a funny/tragic/interesting angle that i could turn into a good post for the horror stories thread.

One thing we seem to have in common though, i also hold myself to a high standard for mechanics. If im half asleep and not performing to my ability id be much more apt to leave early so the group could get someone better focused(and so i can get the rest i clearly need).

[van_arn]

This is a laughable thread. Shinryu is the final boss of Stormblood, and by necessity it's a tad more challenging than the rest.

Of course it's supposed to challenge you your first time. This is not a defect.

Instead of complaining and begging for nerfs, learn the mechanics. I don't want to see you in content after Shinryu if you can't handle that fight as it is.

Oh, and if the issue is with players that refuse to learn the mechanics or can't handle the healing, show some tough love and kick them. If your party refuses to kick them, then abandon them and let them burn the timer without you.