We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Dualgunner]

If an MMORPG can't be compared to a competing MMORPG, then really we have some low standards here. FFXIV will always meet the standards of FFXIV. Even if FFXIV 1.0 was a disaster that failed miserably, it was still FFXIV and you can't knock it for not being FFXIV.

Can we compare GTAV to Dark Souls? Both are singleplayer games.

[Edax]

Can we compare GTAV to Dark Souls? Both are singleplayer games.

Yes! Why should you not? Both are action single player/multiplayer games. Both have mechanics that can improve the other. Why should the topic be dismissed or taboo, simply because A is not exactly like B?

[Dualgunner]

Yes! Why should you not? Both are action single player/multiplayer games. Both have mechanics that can improve the other. Why should the topic be dismissed or taboo, simply because A is not exactly like B?

Because players who are playing Dark Souls aren't necessarily looking for a GTA experience and vice versa. If someone wants to play GTA, they play GTA, they don't go to Dark Souls and whine that they can't steal Nito's car.

I suppose that yes, they can be compared, and things can be improved between them. Nothing is perfect, after all. But after a certain point, one needs to just accept that people would go play Game B if they liked Game B so much more. What Vaer said holds true, if you look past the need to show up "raider ego;" RS purists wanted RS, they didn't want psuedo-WoW.

XIV players want XIV, not psuedo-XI, and not psuedo-RS.

[Edax]

Because players who are playing Dark Souls aren't necessarily looking for a GTA experience and vice versa. If someone wants to play GTA, they play GTA, they don't go to Dark Souls and whine that they can't steal Nito's car.

If GTA borrowed some of Dark Souls mechanics, GTA would not turn into Dark Souls. Or vice versa.
Not having played either game, I cannot site examples unfortunately.

In Red Dead Redemption, you could ride a wild horse and tame it. In Breath of the Wild, you could do the same. This mechanic was not in any previous Legend of Zelda game. Breath of the Wild did not become Red Dead Redemption, and I daresay BotW was better for adopting the new mechanic. It's all a matter of debate what mechanics can be adopted between game, but we shouldn't dismiss the debate simply for existing.

[Dualgunner]

If GTA borrowed some of Dark Souls mechanics, GTA would not turn into Dark Souls. Or vice versa.
Not having played either game, I cannot site examples unfortunately.

In Red Dead Redemption, you could ride a wild horse and tame it. In Breath of the Wild, you could do the same. This mechanic was not in any previous Legend of Zelda game. Breath of the Wild did not become Red Dead Redemption, and I daresay BotW was better for adopting the new mechanic. It's all a matter of debate what mechanics can be adopted between game, but we shouldn't dismiss the debate simply for existing.

Meanwhile, Metal Gear Solid V borrowed the horse riding mechanic in order to chase the trend of open world games, and it was critically panned for focusing on that to the detriment of the elements of the game that people come to Metal Gear Solid for; that being the characters, the story, and the crafted environments for each encounter.

But sure. Let's compare XIV to Runescape. I dislike the sandbox nature of Runescape, it's why I didn't play it. Keep XIV the way it is.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes! Why should you not? Both are action single player/multiplayer games. Both have mechanics that can improve the other. Why should the topic be dismissed or taboo, simply because A is not exactly like B?

Because they are fundamentally different games in different genres. Chances are there will be very little cross over between their respective ideas. Companies have long tried to shoehorn in mechanics or ideas from other games only for it to fail miserably. In fact, we needs not only any further than FFXIV itself. Eureka is essentially the developers trying to recreate an old school grind MMO that has long since died out. The result? Widely polarizing opinions at best; outright negativity otherwise. You can't take something from another game and make it fit.

For argument's sake though, let's say they did implement a radical change like this. You can now obtain the best gear from raids, trials, dungeons and even on the cash shop. So why does anyone bother clearing Savage more than once or twice? Better even, why touch anything except the easier content? There's no longer any incentive for bother. Worse even is how do the devs incentive any content now? Savage takes weeks of clearing to obtain gear, but this change makes it so you could be bis within a month; less if we hearken back to your earlier demand you shouldn't have to farm; that the rewards are given out in full upon clearing. Now you have seven months with nothing since the developers can't develop things fast enough to keep up.

Simply put, if you want the best gear, go earn it like the rest of us. Don't demand it be made available in easier content because you dislike Savage.

[Leigaon]

I agree with the main points the OP put in. I just don't think there's anything that can be done that wouldn't be considered another overhaul.

I think of all the FFXI players saying stuff like "I played XI for 13 years" etc etc.. and the first thing I think of now is "XIV is not something I can play for 6 years let alone 13". It hurts.

That's how I feel, it's hard to stay but there are some great things about the game. Ultimately it would take the feel of gear being a reward rather than given, and it lasting. Right now I came back after stopping a bit after 4.0. I started to get some stuff up but then realized, no point in trying for the top notch stuff, doesn't matter in a few months it will all go down anyways.

I stepped into Eureka the first time and it just seems like being rebooted to level 1 all over again. A game within a game. But they can't make unique gear that boosts traits or like it was said in the early leveling, I think a lot of it has to do with there's not much else to do when fighting mobs 90% of the time that doesn't involve something outside of damage. There's no real party buffing or enfeebling. Right now I'm playing with SCH again and when I use Chain Stratagem, I don't get a feeling it's doing much but letting me hit a button. Or Sacred Soil. I use it, but with the exception of probably raid level environments it hasn't really done anything. I still have to use the same cures to get people back.

Yet there's enjoyment in the game that draws me in. I cannot deny that. Though having things like more unique gear / combat changes aren't going to happen. I did feel that the open world was going to have FATES that dropped the gear from the NMs they took away.

[Vaer]

(darn, I'm being drawn into this topic again...)
Are the raider's egos so fragile that they'd quit if they didn't get the absolute best? Would it break the community on the level that EoC did? EoC affected nearly everyone in Runescape, every player had to relearn combat from scratch. I'll agree change isn't easy, but I do think there is rising discontent with the latest FFXIV content coming out. Change maybe necessary, though what that form comes in is debatable.

I wouldn't know. But think of it this way. If I went to OSRS and tried to change it to what FFXIV is like or even to what RS3 is like, wouldn't I get the same responses you are getting here? Should I just tell them change is necessary? Nah they would probably just tell me to go back to FFXIV.

I mean the reason stuff like old school are even ideas is because some people didn't like how they overhauled or even changed the game at some point. Same thing with WoW Classic or so called time-locked progression servers.

It wouldn't be as weird to suggest super radical changes if the game was in the dumps financially, but FFXIV seems to be doing pretty well for itself even with the problems it currently has.

[Sigma-Astra]

If FFXIV can only be compared to FFXIV, then we don't really have much to talk about.

None of us said that XIV could only be compared to XIV, again, you are strawmanning and putting words in our mouths of things that we didn't even outright even say. At this point in time, even I'm thinking that you don't read our posts half of the time if this is the only conclusion that you could come up with from my entire post earlier on in the thread.

You didn't refute any of my main points, you didn't even try, in fact, I honestly think that you can't at this point. You're not refuting anything else I've said and only shifting and moving the goal posts into something entirely off the wall each and every time. I've made very good points, you just don't want to accept them, and it sort of feels like I'm talking to a brick wall.

You can't compare XIV to Runescape in the sense, as Dualgunner has pointed on, as we all have pointed out, that they are not even remotely the same kind of MMO archetype. Runescape is not even a main competitor against XIV at this point in time simply because they are wildly different from each other in terms of structure. Now, if we were comparing what WoW has done or maybe what GW2 or what XI had done in the past, there might be some common ground. But, there's no common ground between XIV and Runescape other than the fact they're both MMO's, that's it. And that doesn't make a good comparison or argument which again, Dualgunner has also pointed out. You can't compare one thing to another just because you like the one thing and just because they are both part of the MMO genre. It's not a good comparison, that's not how comparisons even work.

And as Dualgunner has also pointed out beforehand, it's akin towards comparing Minecraft and Dark Souls and stating it's possible simply because they're both single player games. It's not....and you're either purposely missing the main point or just refusing to accept it because it invalidates your own opinions and logic, whatever the case may be.

If you want Runescape rewards, you go play Runescape. That's all there is to it. There's no reason for XIV to go down that route simply because you don't want to put forth the effort when you'd rather just put forth the time because it's easier for you.

But, I can agree on one thing with you at least that we really don't have much to talk about simply because you refuse and deny any and all truths if they don't validate your own views as correct. That's not a healthy discussion, that's a circlejerk or echo chamber.

[Claviusnex]

Man this thread has sure derailed.