White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[Sigma-Astra]

People keep mementos IRL as well for the same reason. Like a wedding ring, or some kind of gift that was given to them by someone else.

You can't really compare a wedding ring, a physical object that is radically different from one person towards the next, towards a digital item that will look the same on everyone else who wears it.

My engagement ring looks nothing like any one else's and yes, one could argue that it's just a bunch of diamonds, so they all use the same material. But, at the same time, the value shouldn't be in the object itself, but who gave it to you. If you're placing much more stock in the item itself than the person on the other end? I think some self-reflection might be needed, lol. I wear this ring not because it's expensive or pretty looking, but I wear it because I want the world to know that my heart belongs to someone else and I'm proud and happy to be with them, nothing more than that.

Not to mention that one shouldn't think of their engagement or wedding ring as nothing more than a trophy or achievement piece as what is equated towards the White Raven Earrings, but to each their own, you know? I find the comparison just a little far-fetched and kind of silly, no offense. :P

One can also argue that you can be and feel married towards another without a physical object to reflect it. But, that's a whole other topic for another day.

[Sigma-Astra]

It's a cultural thing. Sadly we can all agree to disagree here over basically everything. Its what happens with a game that is trying to encompass so much

Need a hug? :P

I'm good. :P I'm about to head off towards my second job anyways~

[Vaer]

You can't really compare a wedding ring, a physical object that is radically different from one person towards the next, towards a digital item that will look the same on everyone else who wears it.

My engagement ring looks nothing like any one else's and yes, one could argue that it's just a bunch of diamonds, so they all use the same material. But, at the same time, the value shouldn't be in the object itself, but who gave it to you. If you're placing much more stock in the item itself than the person on the other end? I think some self-reflection might be needed, lol. I wear this ring not because it's expensive or pretty looking, but I wear it because I want the world to know that my heart belongs to someone else and I'm proud and happy to be with them, nothing more than that.

One can also argue that you can be and feel married towards another without a physical object to reflect it. But, that's a whole other topic for another day.

That's my point though. Different people care about different things. Some might not care about a wedding ring, some might. Just like these earrings - some don't give a damn, others do. Depends on the person. Others get attached to "digital" items. Digital items have a stigma just like video games so it's kind of like "lol you actually care," but I think that's kind of unfair. Personally, I think getting attached to digital items is somewhat out there but yeah. Anyways this is getting way off topic.

[Dzian]

You can't really compare a wedding ring, a physical object that is radically different from one person towards the next, towards a digital item that will look the same on everyone else who wears it.

My engagement ring looks nothing like any one else's and yes, one could argue that it's just a bunch of diamonds, so they all use the same material. But, at the same time, the value shouldn't be in the object itself, but who gave it to you. If you're placing much more stock in the item itself than the person on the other end? I think some self-reflection might be needed, lol. I wear this ring not because it's expensive or pretty looking, but I wear it because I want the world to know that my heart belongs to someone else and I'm proud and happy to be with them, nothing more than that.

One can also argue that you can be and feel married towards another without a physical object to reflect it. But, that's a whole other topic for another day.

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

[Mahrze]

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

It isn't. You decide it does.

You just made my afternoon. ♥

Then here's hoping that afternoon stays fantastic ;D

I'm good. :P I'm about to head off towards my second job anyways~

Have fun o/ Keep in touch on discord :P

[JunseiKei]

Honestly? The more level headed people were more just expressing disappointment which is ok to me. It wasn't even about the earring glamour, most of them as far as I can tell don't even care about the glamour they just wanted it to be a different item. Obviously the entire thing sounds kind of petty from the outside looking in, but different people care about different things. Some of the stuff was silly, like comparing it to a military medal, that was out there.

People keep mementos IRL as well for the same reason. Like a wedding ring, or some kind of gift that was given to them by someone else and others don't even care about stuff like that.

I mean, I'm reading what you're saying. It just comes off as the memories aren't good enough, the badge needs to be there as well. It needs to be treated as something more, something special because reasons. It's really no different than Haurchefant's shield given to us through the MSQ (has story significance, for many has a strong emotional tie).

As well as keep seeing comparisons to real items with real value and tangibility. It just doesn't equate to someone like me because I have no control over said item. It doesn't exist.

No one is coming together as a community

Nah, don't ruin the event because we're all rather just very stubborn and passionate. We come together and play the game. We just have differing opinions about what exists in it, s'all.

[Vaer]

I mean, I'm reading what you're saying. It just comes off as the memories aren't good enough, the badge needs to be there as well. It needs to be treated as something more, something special because reasons. It's really no different than Haurchefant's shield given to us through the MSQ (has story significance, for many has a strong emotional tie).

As well as keep seeing comparisons to real items with real value and tangibility. It just doesn't equate to someone like me because I have no control over said item. It doesn't exist.

Human nature I guess? We get so called "badges" IRL as well, diplomas, jewelry, certificates, badges, etc. Sure these items are tangible, but the principle/meaning in this case as far as I can tell is about the same thing. And yes, there are people who don't care about these items either. The only difference is that it's a physical item vs a digital item.

I mean I understand you don't care about digital items and that's that but.. yeah.

But having this over-arching view of "I did the fight half a decade ago to deserve those earrings - and you didn't go through exactly the same hardships so you don't deserve them" would leave a pretty bare-bones population in this MMO. You think everyone gets their pony and bird mounts today by doing the fights synced? I highly doubt it.

I highly doubt anyone is going to quit because of these earrings, or mounts since one of the arguments so far is they're just pixels. That's why this argument is somewhat confusing. Feels like it could go both ways.

[Stormfur]

This is not, in any way, comparable to anything in real life.

The ONLY thing they have in common is that things in real life can have meaning for you, just as things in a game can have meaning for you. I don't think anyone here is disputing that. The amount of meaning, definitely -- but that's always going to vary from person to person.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the Nidhogg weapons have especially significant meaning to me. If that fight disappeared tomorrow and they made the weapons available to everyone just for doing a FATE -- I wouldn't care despite the fact that it took me weeks of practice to down that sucker. First, because it happened years ago. Second because no one will ever understand how significant my triumph was (nor do I expect them to).

I think a lot of the veterans here are expecting the rest of us to understand their toils and tribulations and give just as much meaning and...deference, maybe? to the item as they do. And we don't. We can't. You could come close to seeing how I felt at the end of the Nidhogg fight if you did it synced with one eye closed, but it won't be 100% exactly the same. If we do the 1.0 Nael fight, it won't be 100% exactly the same, but it will be close.

And then after the event, I would hope, we could all come together and say "yeah, that was definitely a challenge! We sure have come a long way since the early days, haven't we?"

But having this over-arching view of "I did the fight half a decade ago to deserve those earrings - and you didn't go through exactly the same hardships so you don't deserve them" would leave a pretty bare-bones population in this MMO. You think everyone gets their pony and bird mounts today by doing the fights synced? I highly doubt it.

[InkstainedGwyn]

Human nature I guess? We get so called "badges" IRL as well, diplomas, jewelry, certificates, badges, etc. Sure these items are tangible, but the principle/meaning in this case as far as I can tell is about the same thing. And yes, there are people who don't care about these items either. The only difference is that it's a physical item vs a digital item.

I mean I understand you don't care about digital items and that's that but.. yeah.

I do get what you're arguing for, but I do think it's a little... iffy... to say that an achievement for learning how to do a video game fight has the same depth/strength as something like a diploma (which has 2-8 years of somebody's life invested behind it) or a wedding band (which is hopefully the symbol of a deep and abiding emotional commitment between two people.)

I get the overall concept. Things have different meanings to different people, and people attach importance to different things. I'm somebody who cares passionately about video games (if you took the ability to play some of my favourite games away from me I'd probably go on a rampage)... but I cannot and will not accept that these things have equivalence, and it alarms me a little when people try to say that handing out a video game trophy is on the level of being married to someone who decides to take multiple spouses. You're not married to Square Enix, they're a company that takes your money.

[Nixxe]

Honestly? The more level headed people were more just expressing disappointment which is ok to me. That borders more on feedback than complaining to me. Complaining would be the "you don't deserve it" thing or some kind of ultimatum. OP was pretty reasonable I thought. It wasn't even about the earring glamour, most of them as far as I can tell don't even care about the glamour they just wanted it to be a different item. Obviously the entire thing sounds kind of petty from the outside looking in, but different people care about different things. Some of the stuff was silly, like comparing it to a military medal, that was out there.

People keep mementos IRL as well for the same reason. Like a wedding ring, or some kind of gift that was given to them by someone else that could even be "digital" and others don't even care about stuff like that.

It sounds petty because it is. I'd actually have slightly more respect for their position if they were against the glamour being obtainable as well, but since that doesn't bother them, it makes it rather apparent that what they're really after is the game going out of its way to tell them how special they are because their sense of self-worth is apparently not internally sourced. It's not the game's job to manage people's emotions for them.

Real life mementos also tend to be valued irrespective of whether or not anyone else can get them. Many of them are mass produced items, but they're kept because of the significance to the individual, not because of their rarity. Nobody goes around expecting anyone else to be in awe of them for having a dead relative who liked baseball or whatever either. This breaks down in the MMORPG iteration because it's not for the same purpose at all. Instead, it's about prestige (that doesn't really exist) and an attempt to establish some sort of social hierarchy based on tenure and outdated accomplishments.