Holding mentors accountable?

[Nixxe]

Dear god in heaven... To echo a previous poster, how bad a state must your server's NN be in to elicit blanket statements such as this? It makes me sad for your sprouts.

Maybe if the "good" mentors would join the chat or speak up with the correct advice (not advocating starting arguments with anyone, just suggesting they provide factual information and leave it at that) then maybe some of the other NNs wouldn't be such dumpster fires? I keep seeing it repeated in this thread, over and over, how people "took one look at the NN chat" and left right away. Well of course, if all the good players leave without trying all that is going to be left is the bottom of the barrel. In such a situation, what else could it end up as besides terrible? It takes effort to cultivate a positive, helpful community.

For clarity, I'm not suggesting that everyone who qualifies as a mentor is obligated to jump in and try to fix up their NN (should it be one of the ones in a poor state.) But if it's such a pervasive problem and you feel strongly enough about it to voice your opinion on it and push SE to take some kind of action, why not try to take some kind of action yourself rather than just sitting by and cursing the dark?

Part of the issue is that the bad mentors form their own little communities in NN and have no incentive to leave just because they're the bane of NN. You can kick them, but that often just results in retaliatory vote kicks. In their eyes, they've done nothing wrong, so rather than fix the bad behavior, it just encourages them to do it more.

[Elamys]

What I want to know is why I'm able to flag myself as a PvE mentor when I only meet the trade requirements. Much less as a PVP one.

I don't wear my PvE crown because I don't think I have the knowledge to teach people about the range of combat questions in this game. This thread makes me...really glad that I have that attitude. You can ask me your DoH/L questions though because I think I actually understand that.

Having crafting mentor status doesn't allow access to mentor roulette. I have crafting mentor status and I cannot do mentor roulette because I haven't done all of the dungeons.

I have had access to it since Heavensward, after I completed the 2 duties I was missing unsynced. I only had White Mage at max at this point, therefore I did not meet the PvE mentor requirements but it still gave me access to all of the perks with the only requirement being completion of a few duties that did not even have to be completed synced. I'm actually locked out of it again ATM because I haven't done Nidhogg or Sophia Ex, but once I pop into those unsynced I can do it again, and yet, I still only have my highest level tank at level 50.

[Rymm]

Part of the issue is that the bad mentors form their own little communities in NN and have no incentive to leave just because they're the bane of NN. You can kick them, but that often just results in retaliatory vote kicks. In their eyes, they've done nothing wrong, so rather than fix the bad behavior, it just encourages them to do it more.

You are certainly right about that. Mentor or not, you see a lot of the "bad apples" in different games tend to band together and form their own cliques. Which is why I pointed out in my post that the goal is not to seek out direct confrontation with those you feel are bad mentors, just go about your business doing what you feel a good mentor aught to. You can't stop them from being rude/antagonistic/discouraging/etc. but neither can they stop you from being helpful and polite.

[Ilan]

Dear god in heaven... To echo a previous poster, how bad a state must your server's NN be in to elicit blanket statements such as this? It makes me sad for your sprouts.

Maybe if the "good" mentors would join the chat or speak up with the correct advice (not advocating starting arguments with anyone, just suggesting they provide factual information and leave it at that) then maybe some of the other NNs wouldn't be such dumpster fires? I keep seeing it repeated in this thread, over and over, how people "took one look at the NN chat" and left right away. Well of course, if all the good players leave without trying all that is going to be left is the bottom of the barrel. In such a situation, what else could it end up as besides terrible? It takes effort to cultivate a positive, helpful community.

For clarity, I'm not suggesting that everyone who qualifies as a mentor is obligated to jump in and try to fix up their NN (should it be one of the ones in a poor state.) But if it's such a pervasive problem and you feel strongly enough about it to voice your opinion on it and push SE to take some kind of action, why not try to take some kind of action yourself rather than just sitting by and cursing the dark?

Well the sprouts have to be lucky to find someone who explains stuff right and especially doesn't flame if he/she makes a mistake. I think the biggest problem is that everyone can become a mentor and will always be as long as he/she wants it that way.

[KaivaC]

Admittedly, I'm a little bit fearful of providing wrong information, which is why I'm not going to mentor status right now. Snipping from what I posted in the Tales thread, I prefer main tank as DRK, and in lvl 50 content, I forget that other tanks, or at least Paladins, do not have a full dps combo. So when I drop my tank stance and suddenly start seeing a pld spamming enmity combos, I get nervous. Mistakes like that when I don't remember things like this, I afraid makes me look like a bigger fool for speaking up for asking the reason for them using nothing but enmity combos.

In a sense, I don't want to be that guy who wears the mentor crown and says things like that, which is definitely not how a mentor should be. In the other hand, mentors that don't try at least to help or intentionally engage in pettiness, there should be some kind of way to hold them accountable. Sprouts shouldn't be shouted down for simply not knowing about hunts that they accidentally pulled because they didn't know about them. They shouldn't be kicked out of the NN for simply asking too many questions. And mentors certainly shouldn't be making inappropriate comments about other players in order to shame them out of personal dislike.

[Zephera]

This thread makes me glad my server's Novice Network has drama very rarely. Sounds like other servers have some real horror shows going on with theirs.

[AxlStream]

To me this is just other servers admitting failure. We hear how some servers work with NN other don't. I think the ones that did work out okay had their good mentors involve themselves more while the bad ones just expected it to be a cesspool for drama/ego stroking and didn't get involved in their own NN. Self fulfilling prophecy.

[Rymm]

To me this is just other servers admitting failure. We hear how some servers work with NN other don't. I think the ones that did work out okay had their good mentors involve themselves more while the bad ones just expected it to be a cesspool for drama/ego stroking and didn't get involved in their own NN. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Thank you for articulating what I was trying to get at (albeit in a roundabout sort of way) in my last few posts!

[Nixxe]

You are certainly right about that. Mentor or not, you see a lot of the "bad apples" in different games tend to band together and form their own cliques. Which is why I pointed out in my post that the goal is not to seek out direct confrontation with those you feel are bad mentors, just go about your business doing what you feel a good mentor aught to. You can't stop them from being rude/antagonistic/discouraging/etc. but neither can they stop you from being helpful and polite.

Personally, I do find it harder to be a good mentor with them there. Over the short run it's fine, but over the long run it begins to wear on you.

Regardless, my point is more that ignoring the problem and mentoring around them isn't really a solution. Everyone still has to put up with their presence in NN, which I think undermines the quality of NN, regardless of who else is doing what in the channel.

[Freyt]

I think I'm a passable mentor. I don't go looking for problems to fix, but I'm patient and not demanding of newbies or anyone else, and will explain when an explanation is called for, and will let them experience something first if that seems better.

And as far as the NN goes, that's your problem. I'm not interested in community operated platforms. It's going to be terrible regardless because of that. The mentorship I give you in regards to that is letting you experience the hell that that entails, so that you learn to never operate anything in that way again or elsewhere.

The best way to fix the NN is to leave it, because it's intrinsically flawed.

A better designed NN would have multiple networks owned and operated by players who sign up for them, which are then rated by players who join them and recommended to players based on those ratings, with moderation powers given to other players by the one who owns them. Like Linkshells, except more in your face and specifically for newbie/mentor relations.

You'll find better help by joining a Free Company or Linkshell.