Holding mentors accountable?

[Rymm]

There are not only bad mentors but the good ones are most likely not in the NN or just don't read and write in it.

Dear god in heaven... To echo a previous poster, how bad a state must your server's NN be in to elicit blanket statements such as this? It makes me sad for your sprouts.

Maybe if the "good" mentors would join the chat or speak up with the correct advice (not advocating starting arguments with anyone, just suggesting they provide factual information and leave it at that) then maybe some of the other NNs wouldn't be such dumpster fires? I keep seeing it repeated in this thread, over and over, how people "took one look at the NN chat" and left right away. Well of course, if all the good players leave without trying all that is going to be left is the bottom of the barrel. In such a situation, what else could it end up as besides terrible? It takes effort to cultivate a positive, helpful community.

For clarity, I'm not suggesting that everyone who qualifies as a mentor is obligated to jump in and try to fix up their NN (should it be one of the ones in a poor state.) But if it's such a pervasive problem and you feel strongly enough about it to voice your opinion on it and push SE to take some kind of action, why not try to take some kind of action yourself rather than just sitting by and cursing the dark?

[Nixxe]

Dear god in heaven... To echo a previous poster, how bad a state must your server's NN be in to elicit blanket statements such as this? It makes me sad for your sprouts.

Maybe if the "good" mentors would join the chat or speak up with the correct advice (not advocating starting arguments with anyone, just suggesting they provide factual information and leave it at that) then maybe some of the other NNs wouldn't be such dumpster fires? I keep seeing it repeated in this thread, over and over, how people "took one look at the NN chat" and left right away. Well of course, if all the good players leave without trying all that is going to be left is the bottom of the barrel. In such a situation, what else could it end up as besides terrible? It takes effort to cultivate a positive, helpful community.

For clarity, I'm not suggesting that everyone who qualifies as a mentor is obligated to jump in and try to fix up their NN (should it be one of the ones in a poor state.) But if it's such a pervasive problem and you feel strongly enough about it to voice your opinion on it and push SE to take some kind of action, why not try to take some kind of action yourself rather than just sitting by and cursing the dark?

Part of the issue is that the bad mentors form their own little communities in NN and have no incentive to leave just because they're the bane of NN. You can kick them, but that often just results in retaliatory vote kicks. In their eyes, they've done nothing wrong, so rather than fix the bad behavior, it just encourages them to do it more.

[Rymm]

Part of the issue is that the bad mentors form their own little communities in NN and have no incentive to leave just because they're the bane of NN. You can kick them, but that often just results in retaliatory vote kicks. In their eyes, they've done nothing wrong, so rather than fix the bad behavior, it just encourages them to do it more.

You are certainly right about that. Mentor or not, you see a lot of the "bad apples" in different games tend to band together and form their own cliques. Which is why I pointed out in my post that the goal is not to seek out direct confrontation with those you feel are bad mentors, just go about your business doing what you feel a good mentor aught to. You can't stop them from being rude/antagonistic/discouraging/etc. but neither can they stop you from being helpful and polite.

[Nixxe]

You are certainly right about that. Mentor or not, you see a lot of the "bad apples" in different games tend to band together and form their own cliques. Which is why I pointed out in my post that the goal is not to seek out direct confrontation with those you feel are bad mentors, just go about your business doing what you feel a good mentor aught to. You can't stop them from being rude/antagonistic/discouraging/etc. but neither can they stop you from being helpful and polite.

Personally, I do find it harder to be a good mentor with them there. Over the short run it's fine, but over the long run it begins to wear on you.

Regardless, my point is more that ignoring the problem and mentoring around them isn't really a solution. Everyone still has to put up with their presence in NN, which I think undermines the quality of NN, regardless of who else is doing what in the channel.

[Ilan]

Dear god in heaven... To echo a previous poster, how bad a state must your server's NN be in to elicit blanket statements such as this? It makes me sad for your sprouts.

Maybe if the "good" mentors would join the chat or speak up with the correct advice (not advocating starting arguments with anyone, just suggesting they provide factual information and leave it at that) then maybe some of the other NNs wouldn't be such dumpster fires? I keep seeing it repeated in this thread, over and over, how people "took one look at the NN chat" and left right away. Well of course, if all the good players leave without trying all that is going to be left is the bottom of the barrel. In such a situation, what else could it end up as besides terrible? It takes effort to cultivate a positive, helpful community.

For clarity, I'm not suggesting that everyone who qualifies as a mentor is obligated to jump in and try to fix up their NN (should it be one of the ones in a poor state.) But if it's such a pervasive problem and you feel strongly enough about it to voice your opinion on it and push SE to take some kind of action, why not try to take some kind of action yourself rather than just sitting by and cursing the dark?

Well the sprouts have to be lucky to find someone who explains stuff right and especially doesn't flame if he/she makes a mistake. I think the biggest problem is that everyone can become a mentor and will always be as long as he/she wants it that way.