Don't ask, don't tell - Relationship Thought Experiment

[Azurymber]

I could get over someone being a different age, socioeconomic status, race... like pretty much anything different than what I expected them to be based on what they had told me online. Lies are crappy but I often give people second chances. The problem with lying about gender specifically in the context of a relationship is that many people are attracted almost exclusively to one gender or the other, like in my case. Try as I might I couldn't magically turn myself gay because for many people their sexuality is inflexible.

I can't believe I have to explain this...



No it isn't, because lying about your gender in a video game doesn't make you trans.

Imagine you only dated someone because of who they are inside.
If they lie about their interests, their passions, etc, they are being a completely fake person.
If they turn out to be a different gender than you thought, they are still the same person.

You might personally value gender more than age, personality, etc. But not everyone feels that way.

And if someone in a video game says they are a girl. And continues to say they are a girl. But were born male. Then yes, they are a girl. Regardless with how they look IRL.

And if someone in a video game says they are a girl, but then says "actually i'm not a girl inside I was lying" then they are dishonest.

[MoroMurasaki]

Imagine you only dated someone because of who they are inside.
If they lie about their interests, their passions, etc, they are being a completely fake person.
If they turn out to be a different gender than you thought, they are still the same person.

You might personally value gender more than age, personality, etc. But not everyone feels that way.

The issue is that you're saying it's not okay to value gender more than those things and that its actually transphobic. It isn't. It's called having a static sexuality.

And if someone in a video game says they are a girl. And continues to say they are a girl. But were born male. Then yes, they are a girl. Regardless with how they look IRL.

And if someone in a video game says they are a girl, but then says "actually i'm not a girl inside I was lying" then they are dishonest.

I'm not going to debate any of this with you, I have no desire to bang my head into a wall.

[Azurymber]

The issue is that you're saying it's not okay to value gender more than those things and that its actually transphobic. It isn't. It's called having a static sexuality.

If you meet someone IRL and they look female, but were born male. And they don't immediately inform you. And you fall for them. Then yeah, if you get upset at them when they tell you they were born male, that's transphobic. If someone is living or expressing themselves as a specific gender, they have the right to do that. You aren't entitled to that information the second you meet them.

In final fantasy, if people express themselves as their preferred gender, that's their right. They aren't "fake." They aren't a problem.
In real life, if people express themselves as their preferred gender, that's their right. They aren't "fake." They aren't a problem.

Getting upset because some people playing a female character and expressing themselves as being female were actually born male is literally transphobia. It's an expectation that trans people inform everyone they are trans.

[MoroMurasaki]

If you meet someone IRL and they look female, but were born male. And they don't immediately inform you. And you fall for them. Then yeah, if you get upset at them when they tell you they were born male, that's transphobic. If someone is living or expressing themselves as a specific gender, they have the right to do that. You aren't entitled to that information the second you meet them.

In final fantasy, if people express themselves as their preferred gender, that's their right. They aren't "fake." They aren't a problem.
In real life, if people express themselves as their preferred gender, that's their right. They aren't "fake." They aren't a problem.

Getting upset because some people playing a female character and expressing themselves as being female were actually born male is literally transphobia. It's an expectation that trans people inform everyone they are trans.

The disconnect here is that you are saying this is about trans people when it isn't. Until you can understand what it's actually about I'm done talking to you. These discussions surrounding actual trans people require much more nuance than you'll find on these forums.

If someone comes into this thread and wants to say that trans women dont deserve the same respect that cis women have i will shut them right down with you. The problem is that hasn't happened.

[Rokke]

My female character gets hit on by thirsty guys. My male character gets hit on by fujos and thirsty gay guys. Theres no winning lol

[Azurymber]

The disconnect here is that you are saying this is about trans people when it isn't. Until you can understand what it's actually about I'm done talking to you. These discussions surrounding actual trans people require much more nuance than you'll find on these forums.

If someone comes into this thread and wants to say that trans women dont deserve the same respect that cis women have i will shut them right down with you. The problem is that hasn't happened.

You're assuming that if someone is expressing themselves as a "different" gender online on a regular basis they are doing it for some nefarious reason.

I'm assuming that -most- (not all) people expressing themselves as a "different" gender online aren't doing it for nefarious purposes. They are just being themselves. And I'm saying it's transphobic to call them "fake" for it. Regardless of how they express their gender in real life.

I'm also saying that the proposition that men "Identify" and "invest" in females online with "expectations" outside of a relationship is sexist.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm assuming that -most- (not all) people expressing themselves as a "different" gender online aren't doing it for nefarious purposes. They are just being themselves. And I'm saying it's transphobic to call them "fake" for it. Regardless of how they express their gender in real life.

Men playing female characters =/= they are transgender. Maybe they just want to play a girl in a video game. The “faux female” comment, again, I feel was about males that play female characters - that then calls into the OP’s reasoning as to why they would just blindly assume the person behind the avatar was of the same gender, which, to me, is just naivety, because we all know there are both males and females who prefer to play the opposite sex in video games for a myriad of reasons. They aren’t transgender simply because they want to play a toon of the opposite sex.

I'm not saying you would be transphobic for that.
I'm not saying you should accept someone for who they are if you aren't into them.

Except your “it’s like who they really are doesn’t matter” comment kind of does imply just that.

I'm saying that assuming gender is more important for -everyone- than any other lie is transphobic.

People who blindly assume that the player’s gender is the same as their character are simply naive. It’s well known that males play females and that females play males all the time in games.

Like how this thread emphasizes gender as being a core issue with online relationships while ignoring all the other things people lie about.

But you brought in the transphobia talk though... no one else. Just want to point that out.


Again, there is way too much tumblr in this thread for me.

[Azurymber]

Men playing female characters =/= they are transgender. Maybe they just want to play a girl in a video game. The “faux female” comment, I feel was about males that play female characters - that then calls into the OP’s reasoning as to why they would just blindly assume the person behind the avatar was of the same gender, which, to me, is just naivety, because we all know there are both males and females who prefer to play the opposite sex in video games for a myriad of reasons. They aren’t transgender simply because they want to play a toon of the opposite sex.

I agree with this.
But i think it's a bit of a stretch to assume the OP is specifically talking about men who play female characters and not people who express themselves as female.
It should be pretty obvious to anyone that some men play female characters, and some females play male characters.

if the op is really that naive then yeah, my posts are irrelevant.

[Brightamethyst]

I'm assuming that -most- (not all) people expressing themselves as a "different" gender online aren't doing it for nefarious purposes. They are just being themselves. And I'm saying it's transphobic to call them "fake" for it. Regardless of how they express their gender in real life.

You're assuming a lot here. While certainly there are some trans players who use their characters to express their preferred gender, they're the vast minority. You don't really think that 50% of male players are secretly trans, do you?

Most people playing opposite gender characters do so for other reasons (prefer the look, etc.)

If someone online is telling their entire social circle that they are a certain gender, -usually- it means they are that gender (whether they are cisgender, trans, etc).

Again, you're assuming things that aren't really true. Most people don't lie about it when asked, especially to their friends. Often it just doesn't come up at all until you start talking about personal lives (or join voice chat where it's often obvious.)