Letter to Mr. Yoshi

[Clover_Blake]

I asked you TWO very specific questions that you ignored.

Ah, I'm sorry. I'll try to be more specific if you're interested in knowing my opinion. I believe our thoughts and interests are quite different, though.

I wanted to know if you are ok with having teammates who are only active 30% of the time in a given dungeon (normal content)? I'm not talking about damage, DPS, gear, new class, or bad days. I'm saying are you OK with the concept of your teammates only being active 30% of the time?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about people who are absent/afk and barely try to play? This is a problem that's completely unrelated to the uses of parses; you don't need a parse to notice that someone is afk and not contributing at all. Being AFK and not lifting a finger is not nice, though luckily I rarely see such a thing. When it happens, people simply kick them out of the party.

The second question was asking if you believe in accountability. It's a simple yes or no question.

Sorry, since English is not my first language, I don't understand the full meaning of this question. Is accountability referring to players who try to beat the boss, regardless of their final damage? Then the answer would be yes. If everyone tries and no one AFKs, then everyone is good in my book (???).

I have a third question now though. Seeing your statement that "not everyone does the same damage". How are you quantifying this? How do you know how much damage others are doing?

Simple answer, and the core of our disagreement: I don't quantify this. In fact, the point you're not grasping about my answers is that I don't care about quantifying this. So long as the boss gets done, I don't care what your equip is, what your stats are, who is doing the most damage and who is doing the least. I see us all as a team, I only care about the final, general result, not the individual ones.

And it's precisely those things a part of the reason why I'm not interested in parses, because then quantifying would become the norm. Because then competitions to see who has the biggest e-peen would become the norm. Because then things could potentially get out of hand like it happened in my past experiences, as parses would start being used as means to see what player isn't "worthy" in some people's eyes, and I don't mean players who AFK (in fact, let's be honest here, it's not players who are AFK the ones people want to judge with the parse).

Please - answer these questions for the sake of the discussion.

Thank you!

I hope my answers were satisfying this time. I do not really wish to extend this discussion, though, as it's clear that we have different interests ;

[Genoreaper]

The first post and many posts after have advocated for a personal parser. Noone cares about kicking people when they are Down or judging other players as the goal.

Also healers and tanks get tools for their jobs, but nobody answers my last question.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Mindset here : I wanna be the very best and take this game very very very serious. OMG, this run is 5 min longer ! What a trash party, blacklist.

Mindset most people: Finally home from work and time to play my favorite game with my friends. Hmm 5 min slower then last time.... o well we did great.

This is a meme casual and/or bad players perceive raiders to have. If this were in anyway accurate, why do you see the likes of Xeno, Bokchoy, Momo Sama, MrHappy and other top tier players all in PF for literally no reason except they're bored and like doing the content? You think Xeno is getting good kill times in a random pick-up? Speaking of myself, I've spent over an hour with a group far below my own skill level. Why? They were putting forth an effort. That's what most raiders are asking for: effort and consistency. None of us care if the run takes a little longer in a PF, provided people are at least trying. What does irk people is when someone repeatedly dies to the same mechanics or clearly has little idea how their job plays at a high level.

Regardless, your own example defeats your argument. "play my favourite game with my friends." You can be an Ice Mage for all I care when playing with your friends. Go nuts and have fun. When you're queuing with random people, especially in higher end game. How about showing a little courtesy and not wasting their time? Five minutes is no big deal; few raiders will care. They'll be a bit less forgiving if you're contributing less than half the DPS of everyone else despite having the same ilvl.

[RiyahArp]

This is a meme casual and/or bad players perceive raiders to have. If this were in anyway accurate, why do you see the likes of Xeno, Bokchoy, Momo Sama, MrHappy and other top tier players all in PF for literally no reason

Because they are streamers and need to stream play and maintain their image to get real life dollars.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Because they are streamers and need to stream play and maintain their image to get real life dollars.

Boychok and Momo aren't partnered. And they were mere examples. What about the other raiders, some sporting Ultimate weapons, who neither stream or have a well known name? The point is this perception some people try to paint raiders as simply doesn't exist.

[Ilan]

The first post and many posts after have advocated for a personal parser. Noone cares about kicking people when they are Down or judging other players as the goal.

Also healers and tanks get tools for their jobs, but nobody answers my last question.

A personal parser is a start BUT if you only see your numbers you'll still don't know if your dmg is enough for your gear because you don't have anything to compare it to. Also a personal parser should show you the whole fight (savage and ex primals) so that you can see where you could push a bit more and where your mistakes are. That would be the only usefull option, otherwhise ACT and FFLOGS are more usefull to people who really want to improve themselfs.

I mean you could integrate a parser with all the usefull features and let the people who don't want to improve can just turn their parser off. Problem solved.

If you refer to this question here: "For those who dont want parsers do you follow a Roration for your dps? Where do you think that came from..." I suppose they are either using no rotation at all, a friend told them a rotation oooooor they just looked it up and used it without know that the devil was involved in creating this rotation.

[Genoreaper]

With parser support there would be plenty of community resources showing ideal dps per ilvl. If nothing else trying to beat your scores in any fight would lead to improvement

Again
tanks have aggro markers
Healers get health bars to use
Why does dps operate blindly with their job

Should we remove them and soley rely on rotations and estimations?

Should we remove all damage numbers and treat every encounter like stone sea and sky, blindly melting health bars against the clock?

[RiyahArp]

Boychok and Momo aren't partnered. And they were mere examples. What about the other raiders, some sporting Ultimate weapons, who neither stream or have a well known name? The point is this perception some people try to paint raiders as simply doesn't exist.

There aren't as many as you'd think. The ultimates are maybe what, 3k total players NA? 6k?

As for raiders, they don't really do much in my experience, in casual content. You really only notice the names on party finder or shouting to sell runs. The ones in my ex-FC do their own thing mostly. It's not like raiders really are noticeable in casual, I can usually tell how good dps is on average from how fast a boss dies, but the actual time spent stays pretty constant.

***

The thing about parsers is that there will be no personal parsers. FFlogs existence shows that. People are kind of asking for it because they want to force other people to get better. It always goes to "make casual content harder." Paladinleeds had a bit of an extreme example, but people tend to want other people to use them to improve when they ask for it; most here that do already use them.

[Genoreaper]

Again I'll ask.

if you don't want us to know our dps as dps, let's remove health bars for healers because they should just know, and remove aggro signs for tanks because If they just play like they should it will be good enough.

WhIle some may think that's extreme let's be real. A tank is meant primarily to hold aggro, so they get an indicator at how well they are doing per mob, we all do so we can use our aggro reducing skills to assist. It would be hell without that tool. We don't expect you to blindly stay in tank stance following rotation. While helpful you could easily kick a tank that isn't doing their job and holding it, it is clearly displayed.

Healers have health bars for every party Member, not just their own, so they can effectively do their job and heal those in need. Again, we don't expect you to go blind and hope it works, YOU have the tools to succeed. A bad healer is easy to spot and remove based on this.

Removing bad tanks and healers for not performing their job is seen as acceptable, but when it comes to dps suddenly its taboo to judge?

Dps however is meant to do the most damage per second as possible and we have zero idea of how to Guage it.

the funny thing is there have been very few stories of being harassed about peoples parses directly, just secondhand stories, but in contrast there are thousands of parses posted wordlessly usually only for the their own numbers.

The game boils down to numbers, if my job is to do the most damage possible let me see and adjust it as needed. If you don't want us to know let's remove all floating numbers and treat every encounter with the same vagueness as sea stone and sky, just focus on blindly melting health bars with no numbers during a time limit

[Yeol]

People are kind of asking for it because they want to force other people to get better.

It is not about forcing other people to get better. Some want to improve their own game-play.
Also, If personal parse was added, people who don't want to get better can simply ignore it.

Most people at end-game have no idea where they stand. Are they good? Are they bad?
They assume that they are good because they have been clearing content. However, clearing content =/= good player (Not always).

I once joined a farm party on PF that kept failing dps check. The party leader blamed me [BRD] because BRDs have the lowest dps. He suggested replacing me with another dps. While in reality, it was him (The party leader) Who was doing the same dps as tanks [He was a DRG]. Obviously he had no idea how bad his dps was. He never doubted himself, because he cleared this fight multiple times before.

Another story is about a player who cleared O8S.
What he does not realize is that he has been carried this entire time by his static members. Their performance is above average so they carried his weight. He thinks that is a good player because he cleared O8S, when in reality he isn't.

I don't think it's fair to leave players in the dark regarding their performance. And i'm pretty sure many players will try to improve if they knew where they stand.