Dancer - Blue Mage, how they could be done interestingly

[TaiyoShikasu]

Problem with BLU as a tank and DNC as a healer is they would need to do something that can't be done by other jobs in those roles which would be difficult given the game's design. What could BLU do that isn't done by the other three tanks when one is already the odd man out?

Game isn't made for evasion based tanking to be viable and DRK was once a pseudo-evasion tank and has since been reworked to be more in line with the other tanks and its role as magic tank pretty much only extends to a single cooldown.

What could DNC do that isn't done by the other three healers when one of those healers is essentially the lovechild of the first two with its own gimmick attached to it?

While there is a needs for more tanks, the way the game is designed makes it difficult for any one of them to have some sort of unique characteristics especially tanks as they all follow the same premise of how they function. Which is why we probably have as many DPS jobs as we do as DPS jobs are easier to design because at the end of the day while they all do the same thing, they do it differently enough be they ranged, melee, or casters support abilities or not.

[Selvokaz]

Problem with BLU as a tank and DNC as a healer is they would need to do something that can't be done by other jobs in those roles which would be difficult given the game's design. What could BLU do that isn't done by the other three tanks when one is already the odd man out?

Game isn't made for evasion based tanking to be viable and DRK was once a pseudo-evasion tank and has since been reworked to be more in line with the other tanks and its role as magic tank pretty much only extends to a single cooldown.

What could DNC do that isn't done by the other three healers when one of those healers is essentially the lovechild of the first two with its own gimmick attached to it?

While there is a needs for more tanks, the way the game is designed makes it difficult for any one of them to have some sort of unique characteristics especially tanks as they all follow the same premise of how they function. Which is why we probably have as many DPS jobs as we do as DPS jobs are easier to design because at the end of the day while they all do the same thing, they do it differently enough be they ranged, melee, or casters support abilities or not.

I think i came up with a pretty different take on the Dancer that could merit some looking into, a Dancer is the Fastest Healer, but also specialize in burst healing. Having lower cast times than normal healers you'd like a dancer as a back up healer during raids and instances.

[MicahZerrshia]

Problem with BLU as a tank and DNC as a healer is they would need to do something that can't be done by other jobs in those roles which would be difficult given the game's design. What could BLU do that isn't done by the other three tanks when one is already the odd man out?

This is a problem with any new job they create. They adhere so much to the trinity and are so particular about keeping all jobs on even playing ground that it really hurts what they can or cannot do. Basically every job boils down to the same set of moves with different names and animations. This is mainly do to not wanting to make a job outshine another in any piece of content and also not making one with a more complicated rotation than another. It does happen but that's not unusual, esp since we have learned they do not seem to be too great at playtesting since things slip through that are glaringly noticeable immediately to the entire community.

So basically its not really asking what can a new job bring to the table, its more about its playability since there is a demand for new jobs even if they boil down to the same as any other.

[Selvokaz]

This is a problem with any new job they create. They adhere so much to the trinity and are so particular about keeping all jobs on even playing ground that it really hurts what they can or cannot do. Basically every job boils down to the same set of moves with different names and animations. This is mainly do to not wanting to make a job outshine another in any piece of content and also not making one with a more complicated rotation than another. It does happen but that's not unusual, esp since we have learned they do not seem to be too great at playtesting since things slip through that are glaringly noticeable immediately to the entire community.

So basically its not really asking what can a new job bring to the table, its more about its playability since there is a demand for new jobs even if they boil down to the same as any other.

Pretty much this, from the looks of it, it's "Theme first" how to make it "Viable" second. It's also the kind of thing I wish they would move away from. Other MMOs have embraced that the fact that some classes are more challenging than others, but also can be that much more rewarding to the players who enjoy mastering those more complicated systems. To me right now Black Mage feels way more complicated than Redmage or Summoner simply because of the juggling act you have to maintain to make the job optimal, but veteran Black Mages might not see any problem with that, in fact they probably find the other two to easy because they aren't as maintenance heavy. Some people find Summoner to have far to many buttons to keep track of, but I personally find it super easy and it has just enough complexity that satisfies me, where as I find Redmage super boring to play though i have leveled it, and do play it sometimes when I want to be lazy. This is a sub category I guess you could say when it comes to job design.

1.) Pick the Theme of the job. 2.) Pick the Jobs Role. 3.) Pick which type of players you are making this for. The players who like sophisticated jobs with many aspects to manage, or the players who like the more simplistic jobs with very little resource management, and lastly the players who are inbetween.

If I had to go through the entire lest.

Complicated Jobs or Jobs with a bit more demanding skill. (excluding warrior as I haven't played it enough.)
Black Mage, Paladin, Monk, Bard,

The intermediate Jobs skill level wise
Ninja, Machinist, Summoner, Astrologian, Scholar,

Fundamentally simply jobs
Red Mage, Dragoon, Samurai, White Mage.

Note these are all just my opinion, based on my experience with the game thus far. But yeah, if any devs just happen to come across this, kind of take what I said into consideration for the next batch of jobs. Throw some complication in one, and make the other a bit easier to use, so that everyone has a little something to play with.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Problem with BLU as a tank and DNC as a healer is they would need to do something that can't be done by other jobs in those roles which would be difficult given the game's design. What could BLU do that isn't done by the other three tanks when one is already the odd man out?

Game isn't made for evasion based tanking to be viable and DRK was once a pseudo-evasion tank and has since been reworked to be more in line with the other tanks and its role as magic tank pretty much only extends to a single cooldown.

What could DNC do that isn't done by the other three healers when one of those healers is essentially the lovechild of the first two with its own gimmick attached to it?

While there is a needs for more tanks, the way the game is designed makes it difficult for any one of them to have some sort of unique characteristics especially tanks as they all follow the same premise of how they function. Which is why we probably have as many DPS jobs as we do as DPS jobs are easier to design because at the end of the day while they all do the same thing, they do it differently enough be they ranged, melee, or casters support abilities or not.

You said "what can they do"
and "evasion tank"
which makes me assume u meant evasion tanking, which is still tanking, is something other than tanking?

Anyways, you only have 2 options for being bulkier.
Lower the damage the enemy is doing, via taking away a solid number, or a percentage of the number. (Evasion is a chance at % mitigation, rampart is %, and blocking is a chance at a %, While armor takes a solid number away.)
Relocate damage the enemy does to another source, via HP shields, utsusemi, damage MP, etc. (WAR tank stance, and thrill of battle are examples of redirecting the damage to another source, such as temporary HP.)

Convalescence is a buff to the healer, btu limiting that buff to only work when the heals are on you.
It doesnt help u survive a TB that does 999 damage of your HP is 999.
The above 2 can help u survive, if not always. (Block procs would help, but not if they dont proc of course)

The only thing you can change in tanks, is the method in which you trigger the 2 styles of mitigation. Rampart is an easy, 1 button press oGCD.
Its the WHM of tanking.
Where as WARs Inner Beast requires a build up, and planning. Its the RDM of tanking. (Still easy)

There is currently no tank class with a complex mitigation style, as the focus is making DPS harder (its still easy) instead.
There's plenty of ways to change up tanks, as we currently dont have a solid 2s GCD tank, as DRKs bloodweapon isnt a 2s GCD, and nor is it up always.

As someone mentioned the limitations of Healers, technically WHM does have a shield, but its single target. (Used to have stoneskin, which we would attempt to use as a pseudo shield before some attacks)

But anyways, Just as 2 WHMs in a raid finder can use their 2 shields for either TBs or to protect casters (and casters protect them with their role skill)
Id imagine the next healer could still have a semi shield option, but at a cost, that makes it less effective than if an AST or SCH would do it, but better than a WHM.

Essentially similar to when AST can no longer cast spells, to channel their one bubble (I forget what its called) it hinders their own DPS.
And similar to the SChs ground shield.

but it comes at a steep cost, only to be used when paired with a WHM.
(Not that it really matters honestly, double WHMs can handle most content, but it does make things harder on some prog groups, or min iLv in some fights.)

EDIT: Id also make the new healer work with WHM, in something unique like, their shield is garbage, like -2% dmg taken buff, at the cost of yoru own healing being lowered a lot. But if the targets have Regen, or Medica2 HoTs on them, they gain extra mitigation for each. (Sort of turning WHM in a pre-regen healer, acting like a SCH/AST with shields.)

They can reactionary heal, and work with WHMs for shielding, but nto do much in shielding with AST/SCH. (Plus their penalty for healing is ok with WHMs burst healing)

EDIT#2: Another way to make a new healer, who slightly bennifits more being with WHM, but still workable with the other healers, is one that spends a GCD to increase the partys max HP for a few seconds.

Then make sure no AoE heals are oGCD unless it puts the max hp increase on CD/take its resource.
Other healers will have to spend a GCD to heal up the HP before the attack goes off, and WHMs Medica2 would work well. (And ASTs who dont want to shield for some reason)

Because most AST would run shielding, only the SCH could really shield, and help heal the group up while their HP is raised higher. (Unless Im underestimating how much prep time ASTs really have to shield and AoE heal right after, before the raid wide goes out, to which the new healers max HP increase would then need to be lowered to something like 4s, so it wears off before the AST could really get much done with the GCD limitations)

I spend most of my time thinking up new tanks, rather than healers.
I have tons of "unique" ways to mitigate dmg, but only a few ideas for healers, though most of my healer ideas were built on a slightly different MMO design, so I'd have to rework some of them to fit FFXIVs build, and even then, i still havnt spent that much time thinking up new ideas.
But im sure theres plenty more, as these 2 alternatives to shielding I came up with, with just 2mins of thinking on each. (Actually i just thought of 2 more ways as I typed that.)

[Duskane]

Problem with BLU as a tank and DNC as a healer is they would need to do something that can't be done by other jobs in those roles which would be difficult given the game's design. What could BLU do that isn't done by the other three tanks when one is already the odd man out?

Aesthetically Blue and Dancer would bring more the the roles
Holy tank
unga bunga tank
angst tank
alternative magic tank

with tank gameplay of course the main idea should be there
but i think they could spice up tanks game play like Paladin and warrior basically play the same just one has more utility
while Drk is more about speed
forth tank could have a job gauge like Drg,Nin,BLM etc etc that could also be fun and unique for a tank

if dancer had spells with different combinations like mudras (just not as laggy) making it somewhat a fast pace healer would be okay
i dont think it would work out too well as a close range attacker though

id be content with Blue mage or Gunblade as a tank