Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Iscah]

It's not fine, and the "hyur aren't people!!" argument is hilarious. Hyur are clearly, blatantly and utterly human rip-offs. They have human features, human naming conventions, human dress and even have distinct human ethnicities, with Anglo-saxon and Japanese having been shown. There are even references to real world religions in this game. There is no reason whatsoever that other races couldn't be included, and insinuating that they shouldn't have, "don't fit" or "don't need" a place in fantasy is both ignorant and racist.

What "references to real world religions" are you meaning exactly? I can't think of any.

As I wrote previously, Hyur are physically the only human-equivalent race in Eorzea but they are not culturally the only race. Of course Hyur are people - but so are Roegadyn and Lalafell and whatever else, all regarded as equally "human" in the world of the game.

Should a fantasy world be required to replicate every real human nationality? What if (as is the case here) certain nationalities are instead being used as a basis for non-human cultures? Do there need to be humans alongside each of those other races to ensure their culture is properly represented?

Questions without an easy answer. But I don't think it's as simple as you're saying it is.

[HyoMinPark]

What "references to real world religions" are you meaning exactly? I can't think of any.

I’m guessing they’re referring to Ishgard’s religion as an approximation of Catholicism? Or the talk of a lot of Domans of the “Kami”, which could refer to Japanese Shintoism. That’s the only references I can make.

Or they’re referring to the names of certain primals, since a lot of them derive their names from real-life mythology or folklore, though their in-game counterpart can either be similar to real life, or borrowing just the name with regards to likeness; it varies— Lakshmi is an actual Hindu goddess (the goddess of wealth, fortune, and prosperity). Susano-o, Tsukuyomi, and the Four Lords all also have ties to Japanese mythology/folklore: The first two are part of the Kojiki, a compilation of Japanese origin myths; and the Four Lords originally come from Chinese mythology as gods denoted by constellations, but also have representation/presence in Japanese mythology.

Those aren’t the only ones— a quick search will show you that a lot of the primals have real-world counterparts in various different mythologies: Ifrit has Middle Eastern references, Leviathan has references in the Hebrew Bible, Garuda has references in Hinduism and Buddhism.

[Lunaxia]

snip

Western media is consumed on a global scale. 1 in 5 people in the US are non-white. Up to half the population of major cities like London and New York are non-white, and in some cases white is no longer even the majority. Multi-culturalism is growing rapidly. "But there's more white people" is an incredibly old and weak excuse used to cover the heavy bias towards white people that still exists, despite there being no shortage of other races in the industry or in the audience.

No, it's not a case of apathy "because everything is racist/ sexist" lol. It's because while people are fine saying that slurs and harassment are wrong, they don't like having it pointed out to them that they have benefited from a system that excludes or discriminates against other ethnicities and become incredibly defensive. This thread is a perfect example.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one as usual.

So says the only other person with an even bigger chip on their shoulder.

What "references to real world religions" are you meaning exactly? I can't think of any.

Taoism, from the glamour. Angels and devils, Christianity.

snip

I used the shown nationalities as an example that Hyurs are very much humans, since one of the main arguments against OP's customisation request is that they're not and that "IRL has no place in FF" when it's already rampant. We have European and Asian Hyur options available, so why not black or other races? There's just no adequate reason not to.

[Miste]

So says the only other person with an even bigger chip on their shoulder.

You're the one who said it, not me, so it doesn't matter if I have a chip on my shoulder according to you or not, but nice try? xD

If that is all you are responding to from my post then I guess you have nothing, as usual.

[HyoMinPark]

Taoism, from the glamour. Angels and devils, Christianity.

Mmm. Using glamours as a way of saying this game is representing religions is reaching. The Angelic Attire/Demonic Attire are hardly representative of Christianity as a whole. “Devils” are merely personifications of evil, which has representation in every culture and religion, not just Christianity. The only way that argument wins is if you are explicitly referring to Satan, who is the only “devil” in Christianity. At least, as denoted by the Bible.

[Lunaxia]

If that is all you are responding to from my post then I guess you have nothing, as usual.

No, I just don't waste my time with people who don't have the slightest interest in any sort of genuine exchange and are clearly out to pick a fight with me. The grudge you hold would make any discussion pointless.

snip.

No, it isn't. People have been arguing against the inclusion of IRL in FF, and they're directly named or referenced IRL religions with no background or lore explanation inserted into the game. The whole concept of heaven and hell, black vs white, halos and so on, is an entirely IRL (Christian) concept that has no place in the game.

[Miste]

No, I just don't waste my time with people who don't have the slightest interest in any sort of genuine exchange and are clearly out to pick a fight with me. The grudge you hold would make any discussion pointless.

How am I out to pick a fight with you by disagreeing that this game is discriminatory? Can you really not handle counter opinions that you would claim I am just "picking a fight" with you over it?

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

But, I guess you really have nothing to respond with except incorrect assumptions. /shrug

[Lunaxia]

I already said it is properly because it was the topic at hand, but I also do find it extremely unlikely you question representation for all groups across the board in all forms of media you consume.

Well, given that I'm female, I actually do because the bias is often forced into my face on a daily basis. Believe me, it's not something I enjoy seeing.

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

Whatever you say.

[Awha]

Well, given that I'm female, I actually do because the bias is often forced into my face on a daily basis. Believe me, it's not something I enjoy seeing.



Whatever you say.

With comments like that it just comes off as you feel discrimination is race and gender based. Granted at the very least going based off how you defined discrimination before. I am all for extra customization options, but no need to create a problem that does not exist.

[HyoMinPark]

No, it isn't. People have been arguing against the inclusion of IRL in FF, and they're directly named or referenced IRL religions with no background or lore explanation inserted into the game. The whole concept of heaven and hell, black vs white, halos and so on, is an entirely IRL (Christian) concept that has no place in the game.

Saying that glamour represent religions is still a massive reach.

FFXIV’s hell is a seven-layered hell, as is its heaven, but that doens’t make them the equivalents of Christianity’s Heaven and Hell as denoted by the Bible. The presence of an afterlife isn’t exclusive to Christianity either. Same thing with gods or angels or devils/demons, which are present in a myriad of cultures and religions. They aren’t Christian-exclusive.

Christianity also doesn’t have a “black versus white”/“light versus dark” concept, or a strict ownership on a “good versus evil” concept. “Halos” are present only in a single glamour...which isn’t even representative of the way most Christian art depicts halos. Halos also aren’t exclusively in Christianity (e.g., Buddha is sometimes depicted with a halo about him; Egyptian gods are sometimes depicted with halos above them).

There’s really no way around this reach.