DPS Enmity controls

[HyoMinPark]

It’s DF. Not static, savage raid, fflogs type stuff. Do an extra aggro combo and move on. If my blm pulls aggro, you’re not doing enough damage in dps stance anyway.

Diversion pre pull is no problem. Using Lucid because you wanna dps messes with my mana for 3 rotations.

Enmity management is a party-wide responsibility. So while, yes, the tank can do an extra aggro combo, your BLM should also be trying to control their own enmity instead of forcing the responsibility onto others. I don’t feel sorry for DPS that refuse to use their enmity tools given to them to control their aggro when they die due to ripping hate.

[Naryoril]

Enmity management is a party-wide responsibility. So while, yes, the tank can do an extra aggro combo, your BLM should also be trying to control their own enmity instead of forcing the responsibility onto others. I don’t feel sorry for DPS that refuse to use their enmity tools given to them to control their aggro when they die due to ripping hate.

It's a party wide responsibility, yes, but yet you are promoting that everyone but the tank, who's primary job is keeping aggro, take that responsibility (since it seems you don't want to use the aggro combo at all). The tank is part of the party too, you know?

Letting a DPS take aggro and then let that DPS die, having him being ressed with almost no mp and tp lowers the party wide DPS way more than throwing an aggro combo now and then, or even switching to tank stance for 3 aggro combos or so and subsequently not needing to worry about aggro anymore. The suggested tank behaviour you promote here is hurting the party and thus yourself, just because you want to DPS, but don't want DPS queues.

Again, to avoid a misunderstanding: Yes, DPS should use their aggro tools, but if they don't, it's the tank's responsibility to make up for their mistake. Imagine what would happen if healers did the same: Only heal the damage that is unavoidable, if someone gets hit by some avoidable AoE, don't heal that portion, because it lowers the healers DPS. That's the healer equivalent of what you are promoting for tanks.

Every party member is supposed to make up for other party members' mistakes if they can. And again: the tank is also a party member.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Again, to avoid a misunderstanding: Yes, DPS should use their aggro tools, but if they don't, it's the tank's responsibility to make up for their mistake. Imagine what would happen if healers did the same: Only heal the damage that is unavoidable, if someone gets hit by some avoidable AoE, don't heal that portion, because it lowers the healers DPS. That's the healer equivalent of what you are promoting for tanks.

I have no qualms switching to tank stance if people are dying and healer MP is getting stretched thin or if a DPS who has used their aggro abilities begins catching up again. I do, however, take issue with being forced into tank stance and having to spam multiple combos because a Samurai or White Mage refuses to dump their aggro. It has nothing to do with wanting to DPS more, it simply annoys me, especially on Dark Knight since Grit + Powerslash can mess with the rotation flow. If you constantly baby people, they'll never use their aggro abilities. I've let someone eat a tank buster before, it's funny how they suddenly remembered what Diversion and Lucid do. Likewise, I do this on healers. If someone continuously dies to avoidable damage, you've become a liability to my MP and can stay on the floor. Just like with tanks and aggro, it's amazing how quickly people learn to actually dodge when the healers get fed up raising them.

As far as I'm concerned there's a limit. If things are going poorly for the whole alliance, sure, I'll play more conservatively. Is someone new? I'll be far more patience. And, of course, if my ilvl is much lower, I'll compensate. Beyond that, no, I am not correcting for someone too lazy to bring Diversion. If I do another aggro combo or two and that isn't enough, the boss will mitigate the problem. And maybe next time you'll use Diversion.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a party wide responsibility, yes, but yet you are promoting that everyone but the tank, who's primary job is keeping aggro, take that responsibility (since it seems you don't want to use the aggro combo at all). The tank is part of the party too, you know?

Letting a DPS take aggro and then let that DPS die, having him being ressed with almost no mp and tp lowers the party wide DPS way more than throwing an aggro combo now and then, or even switching to tank stance for 3 aggro combos or so and subsequently not needing to worry about aggro anymore. The suggested tank behaviour you promote here is hurting the party and thus yourself, just because you want to DPS, but don't want DPS queues.

Again, to avoid a misunderstanding: Yes, DPS should use their aggro tools, but if they don't, it's the tank's responsibility to make up for their mistake. Imagine what would happen if healers did the same: Only heal the damage that is unavoidable, if someone gets hit by some avoidable AoE, don't heal that portion, because it lowers the healers DPS. That's the healer equivalent of what you are promoting for tanks.

Every party member is supposed to make up for other party members' mistakes if they can. And again: the tank is also a party member.

No, I'm promoting that DPS use the tools given to them instead of saying "it's the tanks reaponsibility, not mine", which is basically what a few have said in this thread (Boris, for example, who said tanks should use more aggro combos or tank stance instead of his BLM using Lucid or Diversion to make things easier).

If the DPS refuse to use enmity tools, it is not the tank's responsibility to make up for their ineptitude. If DPS are actively rotating Diversion/Lucid/Refresh/Tactician/Elusive Jump and still catching the tank on enmity, then there are no issues with tanks having to switch into tank stance for a couple of GCDs, or do an extra enmity combo or two. But if the DPS are not, why should the tank be the one to adjust? They're a party member, but that's not teamwork. That's, again, forcing the responsibility onto the tank because DPS are too lazy to hit a button to quell or halve their current enmity.

I don't play tanks often. So the insinuation I'm just wanting to DPS with faster queues is incorrect. I do, however, play healers, and if someone (who is not brand new to the Duty) dies more than three times to avoidable damage; I stop raising them because they're now a liability to, and a waste of, my MP. I also keep track of my enmity on WHM, and manage it accordingly. I don't feel sorry for other WHMs that don't. If my enmity is unavoidable due to sheer amounts of healing even with Lucid rotating, then usually tanks adjust when I've done all I can. I don't blame them for not adjusting, though, if I'm pulling aggro and sitting on Lucid twiddling my thumbs.

DPS should use their enmity tools. Tanks should do extra aggro combos or switch to tank stance if they are still being caught by those DPS. But by DPS who refuse to hit Diversion or Lucid or another enmity tool? No, I don't think a tank should compensate for that. The DPS isn't being a team player, so why should the tank have to make up for that? If the DPS rip hate, well maybe they'll learn the value of their enmity tools for the next time.

[InfiniDragon]

No, I'm promoting that DPS use the tools given to them instead of saying "it's the tanks reaponsibility, not mine", which is basically what a few have said in this thread (Boris, for example, who said tanks should use more aggro combos or tank stance instead of his BLM using Lucid or Diversion to make things easier).

If the DPS refuse to use enmity tools, it is not the tank's responsibility to make up for their ineptitude. If DPS are actively rotating Diversion/Lucid/Refresh/Tactician/Elusive Jump and still catching the tank on enmity, then there are no issues with tanks having to switch into tank stance for a couple of GCDs, or do an extra enmity combo or two. But if the DPS are not, why should the tank be the one to adjust? They're a party member, but that's not teamwork. That's, again, forcing the responsibility onto the tank because DPS are too lazy to hit a button to quell or halve their current enmity.

I don't play tanks often. So the insinuation I'm just wanting to DPS with faster queues is incorrect. I do, however, play healers, and if someone (who is not brand new to the Duty) dies more than three times to avoidable damage; I stop raising them because they're now a liability to, and a waste of, my MP. I also keep track of my enmity on WHM, and manage it accordingly. I don't feel sorry for other WHMs that don't. If my enmity is unavoidable due to sheer amounts of healing even with Lucid rotating, then usually tanks adjust when I've done all I can. I don't blame them for not adjusting, though, if I'm pulling aggro and sitting on Lucid twiddling my thumbs.

DPS should use their enmity tools. Tanks should do extra aggro combos or switch to tank stance if they are still being caught by those DPS. But by DPS who refuse to hit Diversion or Lucid or another enmity tool? No, I don't think a tank should compensate for that. The DPS isn't being a team player, so why should the tank have to make up for that? If the DPS rip hate, well maybe they'll learn the value of their enmity tools for the next time.

Preach. Enmity is everyone's responsibility.