DPS Enmity controls

[Ruf]

I know it's because you want to maximize DPS, but there is quite some irony in a tank who isn't using tank stance or his enmity combo complaining about others not using their enmity tools...

F o r r e a l .

[Maero]

I always use diversion pre-pull and if start to get agro later on while diversion is on cd must resort to using Lucid Dreaming. All parties have to do their part really

[Lilyth]

All the DPS in the game have more than enough enmity control tools to ensure that all tanks can stay in their DPS stance the whole fight. Easily.

I know it's because you want to maximize DPS, but there is quite some irony in a tank who isn't using tank stance or his enmity combo complaining about others not using their enmity tools...

I'm sorry but the only irony here is how oblivious a DPS must be to even believe in such thing.

The DPS roles lose literally *nothing* in order to use their enmity tools. They are all instant cast OGCDs with zero impact in their rotation. Some DPS can even directly dump their aggro if the situation requires it (Lucid Dreaming, Elusive Jump,... etc).

Meanwhile, Tanks have to sacrifice not only around ~20% of their damage just to enter Tank Stance (and even a whole GCD if you are not a WAR), but their enmity combo is just terrible dps-wise, generate less gauge/resources, and can also mess up their entire rotation.

If you don't use your aggro tools to help with enmity, you have absolutely no right to complain about stealing aggro and getting killed, period.

The only real job that should be causing enmity issues to the Tanks and requiring extra enmity care is the WHM. Lucid Dreaming is simply not enough to mitigate their huge healing output in some fights.

[HyoMinPark]

The DPS roles lose literally *nothing* in order to use their enmity tools. They are all instant cast OGCDs with zero impact in their rotation. Some DPS can even directly dump their aggro if the situation requires it (Lucid Dreaming, Elusive Jump,... etc).

While I agree with you, I do want to point out that BRD/MCH do technically lose a support/offensive tool by having to use Tactician or Refresh for enmity control. I just disagree with the idea of tying enmity management to skills that are supposed to be used for party support (or offensively for the party’s damage, like Refresh is used at higher levels of play). Rather, BRD/MCH should either have Diversion or something put on Repelling Shot/Blank Shot to make them not hotbar trash.

If you don't use your aggro tools to help with enmity, you have absolutely no right to complain about stealing aggro and getting killed, period.

Basically this.

[ArianeEwah]

While I agree with you, I do want to point out that BRD/MCH do technically lose a support/offensive tool by having to use Tactician or Refresh for enmity control. I just disagree with the idea of tying enmity management to skills that are supposed to be used for party support (or offensively for the party’s damage, like Refresh is used at higher levels of play). Rather, BRD/MCH should either have Diversion or something put on Repelling Shot/Blank Shot to make them not hotbar trash.

The funny thing is BRD used to be the job/class to learn "Diversion" aka Quelling Strikes, back in 3.x. Without leveling BRD (to Lv. 34) other classes and jobs had no access to enmity reducing tools. Now it's completely different.

Diversion now being a role skill and available to any DPS class/job except BRD/ARC/MCH is still beyond me.

I still remember our BRD ripping aggro off of me while "pulling" in O6s, once he started getting procs like crazy. (And we had no NIN!)

b@Topic: In full parties, OT should (voke-)shirk MT on CD except there is a swap mechanic coming in the next 2 minutes. Any DPS job should use Diversion/Lucid Dreaming/Refresh etc. There is no reason not to. And don't let a DRG tell you he doesn't have any slots left, and he would need Invigorate (based on a true story!).

[HyoMinPark]

The funny thing is BRD used to be the job/class to learn "Diversion" aka Quelling Strikes, back in 3.x. Without leveling BRD (to Lv. 34) other classes and jobs had no access to enmity reducing tools. Now it's completely different.

Diversion now being a role skill and available to any DPS class/job except BRD/ARC/MCH is still beyond me.

I still remember our BRD ripping aggro off of me while "pulling" in O6s, once he started getting procs like crazy. (And we had no NIN!)

Diversion basically uses Quelling Strikes’ animation, and it’s original 4.0 version was Quelling Strikes lol. Now it’s Quelling Strikes on steroids.

b@Topic: In full parties, OT should (voke-)shirk MT on CD except there is a swap mechanic coming in the next 2 minutes. Any DPS job should use Diversion/Lucid Dreaming/Refresh etc. There is no reason not to. And don't let a DRG tell you he doesn't have any slots left, and he would need Invigorate (based on a true story!).

DRG shouldn’t even need Diversion—they have a free aggro dump every 30 seconds lol. They have no excuse for aggro problems lol.

[ArianeEwah]

DRG shouldn’t even need Diversion—they have a free aggro dump every 30 seconds lol. They have no excuse for aggro problems lol.

That's half true.

Sure, DRG has Elusive Jump to half their current enmity, but they don't and shouldn't use it in their opener. They also have one of the highest burst in the game, so Diversion is recommended there.

Not really necessary when MT has high(er) gear and/or there is a NIN with Shadewalker, though.

edit: Elusive Jump unfortunately doesn't allow to double weave and is a positioning tool. It should not be used if it's not an emergency.

[Ekimmak]

DRG shouldn’t even need Diversion—they have a free aggro dump every 30 seconds lol. They have no excuse for aggro problems lol.

There's two problems with that: One is that it directly removes their uptime. Two is that some fights are not good for a player to suddenly jump in a random direction (like fire III).

[Derio]

Depends really. Sometimes if the gear difference is too great the enmity reduction tools sometimes wont be enough and the tank will either need to be in tank stance. However RDM and BLM have enough tools. Often if you see them take enmity from you they are not using their tools.

[ManuelBravo]

I hate to say it, however someone has to. Knowing your job is more than just gearing and using CD. There is a reason why there are support jobs that can transfer or diminish enmity generation either by actions or role traits. As a tank it's rare that I have enmity issues at all if anything I normally take enmity without really trying. Gear is only part of it. As a tank you can request people's assistance or even ask for tips. As long as your doing your best most will try to help. Sure you will be open to be criticized for it, however there is no shame in learning. Keep in mind that the majority of players are casual and most hardcore types are less likely to listen.