Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[SaitoHikari]

I've put my Bard Songs on a single macro. Just hit the button when the song runs out to get the next one in sequence and I can keep them more or less constant. Although, I don't really use Peloton and, reading through these threads, it looks like I should be....

It's an instant cast out of combat speed boost that is almost as fast as sprinting. It's a significant time saver going from pull to pull, and can help melee position quickly at the start of a fight if they don't have a reliable gap closer (particularly Ninjas and Samurai, Ninja is a bit latency-based and Samurai requires spending meter to use it, which they won't have at the start of a fight).

You only need to wait 5 seconds after casting it to swap it off to another role skill anyway, kind of like Protect. The ranged role action skill decisions aren't as difficult as literally every other role out there. In most content, we only ever use Refresh/Tactician/Invigorate/Palisade/Second Wind, and I tend to swap out Second Wind for Peloton during dungeon runs (as if I ever run into a situation where I actually need Second Wind for a dungeon run, the entire party likely has bigger problems).

Peloton isn't as necessary as Protect though, but it feels wrong not to use it, particularly for Bard mains during ARR/HW that had Swiftsong back then.

[HyoMinPark]

I've put my Bard Songs on a single macro. Just hit the button when the song runs out to get the next one in sequence and I can keep them more or less constant. Although, I don't really use Peloton and, reading through these threads, it looks like I should be....

Peloton is not a necessity; all it does is increase movement speed, and it does not work while engaged in combat. I would also advocate to not keep your offensive songs on a macro; sometimes macros can fail to go off properly, and a BRD’s song rotation does not necessarily mean that you use them after the other ends—what I mean by this is typically Army’s Paeon is clipped at 10 seconds remaining to re-enter your Minuet+Raging Strikes phase on single-targets.

Macros in general are not designed well for battle jobs, so it would be best to start weaning yourself off of them.

[KisaiTenshi]

Maybe it fails most of the time with you healing it. I tend to heal these pulls just fine. Maybe that's because I use all the tools available to me, something you may want to consider. Not being condescending here, I know tone doesn't convey well via text, I'm serious. There is no mitigation in a WHM's kit that trumps Holy.

Other than this I agree to an extent - I would never try to chain pull if I believed the healer wasn't up to it or if they asked me not to. Just because I may be comfortable doing it as a tank doesn't mean they are as a healer. Communication is important here and not just some bs nonverbal.

Only fails about 25% of the time on Doma castle when the tank decides to pull everything while the turrets are firing, geezus tanks please wait for the things to stop firing. That's where my comment about sprint comes from. "Why yes, let's tank everything right in the middle of the line of fire so we can't avoid the AOE and bleeds". If the tank sprints ahead, and the turrets start firing, there is no line of sight to heal them, and by the time the turret stops firing, they are out of range.

Like among all the content that is available, I'd say the worst experiences are on tank rather than on healer. A healer can survive the tank making a mistake. A tank can not survive the healer making a mistake. The DPS end up being able to make all the mistakes and bear no consequences for it.

A good tank doesn't even need to drag the pack to the mob the dps pulled. provoke -> Ranged aggro move -> aoe aggro move -> done. I actually welcome dps pulling mobs that are annoying to pick up or that my overpower misses, since its ultra easy to pull them off the dps when the pull reaches the next barrier. My pocket healer frequently pulls things because she knows it won't be longer than a GCD once I stop till aggro is ripped from her.


FWIW, wall-to-wall may as well be synonymous with 2/3 mob pack pulls, since every dungeon has a thousand barricades now. Ala Mhigo is the only dungeon in recent history that has had the ability to actually pull straight through to the next boss wall.

Wall-to-wall is "everything". The big pull is not unreasonable when the barricades exist, because the developers put the barricades there to prevent the kind of scenario described between your and Muro's posts. When you unsync and go back through all the ARR and HW content, you can see that only the old V1.0 dungeons were ever setup in a way to enable a wall to wall pull by design, as they were originally open-world dungeons, which would be a bad idea synced since you don't have AOE's at those levels in the synced 2.0 version. Unfortunately preventing a wall-to-wall pull also removes any agency the player has for deciding how to deal with the trash mobs. So they can't make the individual packs of enemies hit harder or they become more difficult than the boss. They're just road-cones on your way to the boss.

As I said, a wall-to-wall pull is more typically a failure with a PUG, because you're assuming that the random players you get are going to play in a predictable manner, and that's never the case. Especially with jump pots.

Using Sprint minimizes damage, which you yourself said is a good thing to do. Mobs usually can't hit you if you are sprinted.

You are not being a very good healer if you refuse to press one button to keep up and heal and all because of spiteful assumptions that the tank is saying "I don't need a healer." just because they used Sprint.

You seem to be misconstruing "Don't sprint ahead of the healer" with "Sprinters must be jerks". A PUG is not a Speedpulling farming party. If you don't signal your intention, you'll leave the party behind. It's too late once you've hit sprint and are out of cast range. I do everything by DF, and the average DF is not predictable. If the first thing you see when the starting fence goes down is the tank hitting sprint, and running away, forget it, it's too late.

[Miste]

If the first thing you see when the starting fence goes down is the tank hitting sprint, and running away, forget it, it's too late.

I can keep up just fine if the tank does that.

If I see the tank use sprint then I use sprint and run after them. I have never had a problem keeping up with a tank using sprint on my healer in dungeons in my entire 4-5 years of playing this.

I'm not really misconstruing...because you openly admitted you will *not* ever use sprint to try to keep up with a sprinting tank in order to heal them so if you end up too far behind them they just die when you could have pressed one button, Sprint, in order to keep up enough to heal them.

That was what I was pointing out was needlessly spiteful on your part, not that I was implying you were saying that "sprinters must be jerks." or whatever.

There is nothing wrong with hitting your sprint to keep up. It's one button and it is a purely beneficial buff, just use it if the tank uses it? Going by your post it is pretty obvious you are not using it out of spite since you have an assumption in your mind that the tank is saying "I don't need a healer." even though they may just be using it because it is beneficial and fun to use.

[KisaiTenshi]

I can keep up just fine if the tank does that.

If I see the tank use sprint then I use sprint and run after them. I have never had a problem keeping up with a tank using sprint on my healer in dungeons in my entire 4-5 years of playing this.

I'm not really misconstruing...because you openly admitted you will *not* ever use sprint to try to keep up with a sprinting tank in order to heal them so if you end up too far behind them they just die when you could have pressed one button, Sprint, in order to keep up enough to heal them.

Yet you're advocating to assume the Tank is sprinting for that reason, and not trolling. What is the more likely situation? You get a PUG group, and the tank runs off, pulling everything and then dies at the end, or you get an experienced 3-man party that just needed a healer, and they all sprint the second the fence goes down?

If the Tank wants to do a speedpull, then they should say so. Because the PUG norm is to not drag a train of mobs around while the bards shoot them.

[Iscah]

I'm not an expert tank, but I'll try to keep ahead of the party (eg. running off to the next pack while they finish off the last one of the current group) simply because sometimes I need that extra time to establish aggro before the DPSes start hitting things. Especially for trying to get Overpower to catch everything in the pack.

[MistakeNot]

I'm not an expert tank, but I'll try to keep ahead of the party (eg. running off to the next pack while they finish off the last one of the current group)

Personally I find that particular behaviour to be extremely annoying. Any melee DPS will have a hard time finishing off that last one when it is running away following the tank.

If some DPS players are so impatient that they start hitting things before you have had time to establish aggro - then let them do so. Getting killed (or at least almost killed depending on how merciful you feel) will soon enough teach them not to do that particular mistake.

[Iscah]

Fair point. I was thinking I'm 'leaving it for them to finish off', haven't noticed it following me (but I tend to tunnel-vision). Though I'd do it with only one or two hits left so hopefully it never got that far.

Anyway, noted for future, won't do it again. (unless I've got all ranged DPS?)

[Driskus]

I'm not an expert tank, but I'll try to keep ahead of the party (eg. running off to the next pack while they finish off the last one of the current group) simply because sometimes I need that extra time to establish aggro before the DPSes start hitting things. Especially for trying to get Overpower to catch everything in the pack.

As a healer main, it drives me mad when tanks try to constantly keep the party "in combat" 100% of the time. It drastically slows down natural MP regen, and can easily run the healer out of MP over time if they're DPSing. Bigger or chain pulls aren't always faster.

On the DPS side, I just started playing ROG yesterday, and had tanks running off to pull another pack in the middle of me trying to trick attack a mob if it was up. Its infuriating at best.

[Starflake]

Yet you're advocating to assume the Tank is sprinting for that reason, and not trolling. What is the more likely situation? You get a PUG group, and the tank runs off, pulling everything and then dies at the end, or you get an experienced 3-man party that just needed a healer, and they all sprint the second the fence goes down?

If the Tank wants to do a speedpull, then they should say so. Because the PUG norm is to not drag a train of mobs around while the bards shoot them.

You just seem very slow to me. Sprinting to me when I'm tanking is natural. It's free, it makes the dungeon go faster. I reckon it's the same for pretty much all tanks that sprint. No, no, the majority of them must be these evil people who just want to die and waste their own time and others their time by dying all the time because meuwhhauahahaha gotta go fast. Listen to yourself, you sound ridiculous and you're absolutely reaching at this stage.