Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Miste]

That said, I absolutely loathe tanks who sprint ahead. I will *not* sprint to catch up with the tank that does this. A tank that sprints ahead is saying "I don't need a healer."

Using Sprint minimizes damage, which you yourself said is a good thing to do. Mobs usually can't hit you if you are sprinted.

You are not being a very good healer if you refuse to press one button to keep up and heal and all because of spiteful assumptions that the tank is saying "I don't need a healer." just because they used Sprint.

Why make such a baseless and spiteful assumption over someone simply using a purely beneficial tool the game gives you?

There are many good reasons to use it and a lot of people use regularly because it is nice to move fast.

Do your job and keep up and heal like you are in the duty for instead of being spiteful over nothing. Everyone has Sprint and nothing wrong with using it.

[MoroMurasaki]

I agree with you on some aspects, and while any healer should just say "pull more" instead of going ahead and doing it themselves since communication is a wonderful thing, tanks should recognize when a healer is non-verbally saying they can handle more. Letting them tank whatever they pull isn't really conductive, slows down the run with a potential wipe and to be quite blunt, won't teach them anything.

The vast majority of tanks in level cap dungeons wall-to-wall outside of 1 or 2 very high damaging pulls (Hell's lid post second boss and the super giant pull post final SB story dungeon's first boss), a healer that can handle wall-to-wall pulls isn't going to bother putting any energy to remember the run where the tank did the whole "you pull it, you tank it" meme when a healer can easily tank these dungeons if a tank is being stubborn (Most fun Fractal hard run ever as a SAM tank <3).

Now a dps pulling without them being in voice chat or having pre-existing notation of the tank's and healers skill level is pretty bad, since that one can easily snowball.

I think you're expecting far too much from most people if you think nonverbal communication in this game is probable or that it should be the norm. If you want more pulled say something, if not then stay with the group and Holy.

For the record I don't really let people tank things they pull in an effort to teach them anything (beyond that I was serious when I wanred them they would) I just feel like it's fair to meet their lack of courtesy with my own. If someone slams a door in my face irl I won't go out of my way to hold one for them in the future, same principal. Not worth my time. This would be me risking a wipe if I did it on the first instance of them pulling ahead of me, once I've warned them what their actions will result in though the responsibility is squarely on their shoulders to listen to me or tank what they want to pull. If it kills them I laugh at the thought of their repair bill and move on.

A baby pull is one group. A big pull is two nearby/consecutive groups. A wall-to-wall pull, it trying to take everything from the entrance to the first boss. This a failure most of the time.

Maybe it fails most of the time with you healing it. I tend to heal these pulls just fine. Maybe that's because I use all the tools available to me, something you may want to consider. Not being condescending here, I know tone doesn't convey well via text, I'm serious. There is no mitigation in a WHM's kit that trumps Holy.

Other than this I agree to an extent - I would never try to chain pull if I believed the healer wasn't up to it or if they asked me not to. Just because I may be comfortable doing it as a tank doesn't mean they are as a healer. Communication is important here and not just some bs nonverbal.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

snip

A good tank doesn't even need to drag the pack to the mob the dps pulled. provoke -> Ranged aggro move -> aoe aggro move -> done. I actually welcome dps pulling mobs that are annoying to pick up or that my overpower misses, since its ultra easy to pull them off the dps when the pull reaches the next barrier. My pocket healer frequently pulls things because she knows it won't be longer than a GCD once I stop till aggro is ripped from her.


FWIW, wall-to-wall may as well be synonymous with 2/3 mob pack pulls, since every dungeon has a thousand barricades now. Ala Mhigo is the only dungeon in recent history that has had the ability to actually pull straight through to the next boss wall.

Finally, with how powerful Inner release + Steel cyclone or DA-AD spam is, you'd be surprised how often that qoute is true. All three tanks have insanely powerful self-sustain against level-cap dungeons, made even better when they massively out-gear them. It's pretty irrelevant whether my healer friends sprint with me or not, I'll simply self-sustain the extra 5 seconds till they get there. (if even that)

snip

Yeah, that repair bill of all of about +10 gil. /Much/ more valuable then the time wasted for all three of the players besides you by letting them die and slowing down the run instead of spending the literally one GCD it takes to pull it off of them.

Being realistic though, if its the healer and they pull a 2nd time after you warned them, then it should be shooting massive red flags in your mind that the healer is incredibly bored with how slow you're pulling, and a good majority of the time, they'll easily outheal any damage it does to them until you eventually pick it up. If a dps does it the 2nd time then sure, its on them. But with how I rarely ever see a healer ignore a dying dps, I don't think they'll have trouble surviving either. If anything, those situations usually backfire and its the healer who has to start tanking, not the dps who pulled.

I'm not saying it should be the norm, but the ability to recognize non-verbal gestures is a very powerful skill, both online and IRL. Not everyone is good at typing, or in the case of some console players, has no access to a keyboard and takes 30 seconds - 1 minute to type out "Pull more" with the slow as molasses virtual keyboard.

I'm simply of the mindset that there is /zero/ reason to let anyone intentionally die in a run, unless what they're doing is hostilely trying to wipe the group. Statistically, you're likely to never see them again anyway, so there's even less of a reason to.

[Mixt]

Imagine you are at the pull between the second and third boss in Hell's lid.

You are taking on the first group of mobs and everything is going fine...then a DPS runs ahead and pulls the rest of the mobs to you.

So you desperately try to pull them off of him so he won't get murdered, you succeed, but promptly get killed yourself because those guys hit pretty hard, then the rest of the group gets utterly destroyed. Wipe.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Imagine you are at the pull between the second and third boss in Hell's lid.

You are taking on the first group of mobs and everything is going fine...then a DPS runs ahead and pulls the rest of the mobs to you.

So you desperately try to pull them off of him so he won't get murdered, you succeed, but promptly get killed yourself because those guys hit pretty hard, then the rest of the group gets utterly destroyed. Wipe.

Sounds like a tank that didn't pop CDs or use their self sustain to counter the damage while the healer got adjusted to the sudden new entries. All 3 tanks even have a god mode button for situations like this. WAR even has 2 immunity skills, since IR + SC is basically god mode, even on that pull. Because I've had that situation occur to me with a healer & I new to the dungeon, still didn't wipe.

[HyoMinPark]

I rarely get helpful advice, I just get insults for not being good enough. Every now and then I get someone who's helpful and I'll learn something but, for the most part, I don't want to even want to go into these dungeons because I'm just going to be insulted. There are obviously some nuances to this game to the point were I "don't know what I don't know...."

Re: "I rarely get helpful advice" - Have you ever asked? If not, then strangers may be at a loss regarding what you need help with, or know that you even need it. If so, it is also possible that they do not know your job. However, those ridiculing you are not "elites"; they're just jerks. More times than none, the "raiders" or "elites" that ridicule have a myriad of issues with regards to their own rotations.

I see that you have your main job listed as BRD, so if you ever want any tips for the job, you are more than welcome to hit me up on Discord (Hyomin Park#0055). I'm a BRD main, and I don't mind helping you if you would like it.

[Ameela]

Imagine you are at the pull between the second and third boss in Hell's lid.

You are taking on the first group of mobs and everything is going fine...then a DPS runs ahead and pulls the rest of the mobs to you.

So you desperately try to pull them off of him so he won't get murdered, you succeed, but promptly get killed yourself because those guys hit pretty hard, then the rest of the group gets utterly destroyed. Wipe.

Unless the healer is horrendously bad I'm doing the full pull anyway so... can't relate.

[Mixt]

More like a tank that did use all those things and got murdered anyway.

Cooldowns didn't help.

Hallowed Ground only lasts for 10 seconds, and Rampart and Sentinel only offers a 20% and 40% damage reduction respectively, which only does so much when you are getting ganged up on by a large group of mobs who hit like a truck while the healer is not paying attention.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Try it as a dark knight with a subpar healer. Watch as Walking Dead runs out and you drop dead because they missed it, or blew CDs on something else, or were too busy trying to push their own DPS. It's happened to me enough times to be wary about it.

I'm not saying it can't be done in one pull, if everyone's on point. I'm saying you're not guaranteed to have everyone on point in duty finder. Pulling two groups is faster than trying to overpull, wiping, and having to redo it all anyway. Gauge the group as you go and decide if they can all handle it.

And it's weird to me that it's just that one pull. Why is that one group so dangerous when nothing else in current Experts comes close?

[Saphri]

Re: "I rarely get helpful advice" - Have you ever asked? If not, then strangers may be at a loss regarding what you need help with, or know that you even need it. If so, it is also possible that they do not know your job. However, those ridiculing you are not "elites"; they're just jerks. More times than none, the "raiders" or "elites" that ridicule have a myriad of issues with regards to their own rotations.

I see that you have your main job listed as BRD, so if you ever want any tips for the job, you are more than welcome to hit me up on Discord (Hyomin Park#0055). I'm a BRD main, and I don't mind helping you if you would like it.

Usually way to occupied in the midst of a dungeon boss fight to ask for help but, if we get obliterated and have to start over, I'll use that time to ask for help/advice.