Can Healers Stop Running Ahead in Dungeons

[Dualgunner]

Tank "entitlement" lol. Tanks play the most boring, most knowledge required, most high pressure job in the game. I have no issue playing to their comfort level.

It's the most boring *and* the most high pressure? Wowee I don't know many who can be bored under high pressure.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It's the most boring *and* the most high pressure? Wowee I don't know many who can be bored under high pressure.

Tanks have very simple attack rotations, especially on a single target. They're also responsible for making sure nothing runs off and eats the rest of the party.

So yeah, it's boring to play, and there's some pressure involved. Personally I feel more pressured when healing, but I also don't really like healing in the first place, so that's probably a factor.

(Before someone mentions it; yes, I know, threat management is the whole party's responsibility, not just the tank's. Try getting that through the average PUG's heads. I dare ya.)

[Shurrikhan]

I don't like this attitude, it puts a lot of pressure on the tank, and probably puts a lot of people off tanking.

Fair enough. And as someone who runs nearly every roulette as a tank, yours is probably the kind of attitude that makes me regret roughly half of the few times I don't tank.

Definitely. A lot of people play this game for fun and even SE themselves have said that everyone is entitled to their own playstyle. If a tank wants to take it slow and easy, no one should be forcing them to play otherwise. Yes encouragement is always good but players should never be alienated for how they play, and it seems a sense of entitlement is coming from those who constantly expect fast runs, or to quote exactly "purpose for being there is to accelerate the run".

You realize that goes both ways, right? If you're the outlier, your right to your playstyle comes at the cost of three to seven times as many other players' rights to theirs.

If you have a shield-capable healer, there's not a single piece of casual content that requires a tank. At some point, one has to point out, if you're both in conflict with the party and outright unnecessary, you shouldn't be expecting not to get the boot.

That's not to say you can't get a party of people who likewise refuse to use Sprint, pop CDs, or pull enough mobs for AoE to outpace focus-targeting. But if that's not the case, one should really check the numbers before insisting that they're free to play however they like it what is clearly not a single player game, especially when their playstyle is characterized, essentially, by detriment, not maximization. Even a lazy party is not going to be hurt by someone being hyper-competent. The reverse, however, is not true.

[Kurando]

snip

Yeah I know what you are saying but anyone who does content through DF should have no expectations to begin with, because you never know if you get players who perhaps are new, returners that haven't played for a while, or are relatively new to a job. Capable is really something we need to see in action first as I believe it's just common courtesy to show a little respect.

My only concern is that trust needs a little time to be built at the beginning of content, as a tank I'm not going to be pulling a ton of mobs straight away assuming everyone can handle it (or at least ask the group first) and as a DPS or Healer I'm not going to be pulling extra stuff just because I'm bored and want to get it done quickly. Like I said encouragement is good but being too over controlling can sometimes be detrimental depending on the content (and can damage the confidence of one of the roles panicking to keep up).

[Dzian]

That being said, if the healer is properly balancing healing and dpsing, you actually can tank 5+ groups at once. Your defense is your responsibility, the health bar is the healer's responsibility.

I tend to think the groups DPS is the biggest factor in how much you can pull. You can be the best tank in the world with the best healer in the world but if half that pull isn't dead or close to being dead by the time your cooldowns drop off. Your quite often going to be pretty much screwed.

In my experience that is often what has the biggest effect on the squishyness of a tank. If mobs die slow tanks die fast..

[Tex_Mex]

It's the most boring *and* the most high pressure? Wowee I don't know many who can be bored under high pressure.

Pressure doesn't automatically equate to an engaging playstyle. Very simplistic damage rotations, combined with typically very little movement is just boring. The only thing a tank really has to do mechanics wise is be prepared for tank swaps and tank busters. What makes tanks boring, yet high pressure is that the mechanics they have to deal with have very heavy repercussions if they are not handled correctly. Failing to tank swap or properly mitigate will usually result in a wipe, whereas a DPS dying just doesn't matter that much except in hardcore raiding content.

You want to know why tanks and healers are the lowest played classes, it really comes down to simple game design.
Tank: Boring playstyle, high pressure
Healer: Somewhat engaging playstyle, high pressure
DPS: Very engaging playstyle, low pressure

That's a pretty darn easy choice lol

[Tex_Mex]

I tend to think the groups DPS is the biggest factor in how much you can pull. You can be the best tank in the world with the best healer in the world but if half that pull isn't dead or close to being dead by the time your cooldowns drop off. Your quite often going to be pretty much screwed.

In my experience that is often what has the biggest effect on the squishyness of a tank. If mobs die slow tanks die fast..

That's why I never pull mutiple enemy groups until I can check their DPS output. If it is crap, we are going to go slow.

[Shurrikhan]

It's the most boring *and* the most high pressure? Wowee I don't know many who can be bored under high pressure.

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Not saying tanking is, but I'm pretty sure something can be both high-pressure and dull.

[Besame]

I see all these comments here b*$*#ing about healers. Clean up your own backyard and stop complaining. I hope you complainers diaf every time from PO'd healers that read these boards . I love da healers and rarely run with one that is not trying their best to keep baddies alive as do I when I have healed a group. *kudos*

[Dualgunner]

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Put the square plug in the square hole or everyone dies.

Not saying tanking is, but I'm pretty sure something can be both high-pressure and dull.

I'd have to still disagree. Perhaps if the post I quoted said "Most boring in some situation, most high-pressure in others." I would agree; however the way the post was written made them sound simultaneous. "Push the button or everybody dies!" is not simultaneously dull and high-pressure just because pushing a button is dull; it's just high pressure, because even though the action is dull, it's the context which is exciting. Whereas for something to be dull, there usually isn't any excitement at all, context or no.

Which is where I'll go back to the beginning of my post: if he separated the situations, I might have agreed. However, I will hold that a job cannot simultaneously be boring and high-pressure. Especially when that second argument is a weak point as well; I've heard tanks say that tanking is the easiest job in the game, then turn around and say healing is the most taxing and high pressure. Only for healers to disagree and say DPSing is the most high pressure due to managing a long stringed rotation in the middle of a lot of complex mechanics.

Actually, the more I type the more something comes to mind. Everything is dull in dungeon based content, and everything is high pressure in the harder content. Which hearkens back to context is king. So I'll cede that something can be dull in one context, and high pressure in another context entirely. However, in dungeon content, all three roles are just as dull.