Sexual harassment

[Okamimaru]

The stuff even cringier than i thought.

What's cringey is the "Not my problem = Not anyone's problem" mentality...

[SkyEdge1]

For my 2c, If this happens to you, for the most part you (we) need to grow up and simply brush off this kind of thing and walk away from it. Its a game after all and it does not require you stick around or put up with this kind of thing. If you choose to respond in kind and allow it to affect you that is kind of on you. HOWEVER, if this goes past the 'random jerk-off that can't be trusted with anonymity and a keyboard' and becomes something that you are repeatedly subjected to, it is your (our) responsibility to report it and allow the rules in the game to sort out this nonsense. Same if we witness something or are told that someone is legit being harassed. Silence is complicity in that regard.

[Enla]

After having the misfortune of witnessing several friends be on the receiving ends of such harassment by people they trusted and unable to speak out without fear of losing everyone they cared about, it often /isn't/ as easy as simply reporting and moving on. Not everyone has the support network needed to break the enmeshment when it comes from within their own circle of acquaintances, as it often does. Likewise anyone who has been abused in any remote fashion can tell you how it slowly chips away at your sense of normalcy or ability to speak up and break away. To the point that while you might be able to tell the random stranger who objectifies you to get bent and shove their weapon into decidedly unpleasant places, you often can't do the same with the abuser you've grown used to and who has slowly ramped up their behavior over a period of months.

It's especially bad when even if you do break away and 'report and block' the person, you might end up having to do the same to multiple other people who inevitably get manipulated to come after you and question why you're being so 'dramatic' and rocking the proverbial boat. Or the person you blocked just so conveniently ends up always being where you are because this game doesn't remove from people's friendslists or being searched by someone you've blacklisted. We had an incident over here on Balmung last year where a truly unhinged individual spent months stalking and publicly badmouthing the people they were having a tiff with, even going so far as to message random people about it, and absolutely nothing came from it when the matter was reported by multiple people even with evidence. Imagine that except the person involved had been abusing you for months, and no matter what you do you can't get away from them. If you say 'grow a spine' then frankly I don't think you potentially understand the psyche of someone whose been in that position. It's not the same as someone whose just dealing with some random creep who poked them out of the blue.

I can't really speak on this particular incident as I still need to view all the evidence being presented, but the amount of people just casually waving away these issues in such a black and white manner is rather irksome. Especially when it often isn't that simple.

[Okamimaru]

stuff i mostly agree with

I think we can all agree that there are definitely levels to this type of thing from simple "adore" emote spamming on the mildest side to full blown out of game stalking... God forbid you join a fb /reddit group for your fc or whatnot and the harassment follow you around the web... SE has made it clear that they only care about in game specific issues... outside of the game it falls to the community to decide that it\\'s not ok with this behaviour... and if it IS ok with the behavior let those of us who do care know so we can find a better community to get involved with...

[RiyahArp]

Eh...

I'm not sure this is sexual harassment as opposed to a nightmare/abusive ex. I mean, harassment usually has the connotation of power to it, and if he used his position in the moogle post or as a community leader to shut people up, yeah. But reading it it feels like just a horrid ex, and that's really not systematic as opposed to the person. It doesn't excuse anything, but I am wary of the trend of issue-ifying things that aren't actually the description. Horrid relationships unfortunately happen more often than we'd like.

That's why you need to protect yourself. You don't skype people or send them nudes. You don't want to make yourself too vulnerable to charming strangers on the net or in real life. You can't trust people that way. It's really easy, especially if you are lonely, to become very vulnerable to anyone who is nice to you and think the best of them. People are too casual about this, to the point of linking real life personas to this by meeting in facebook groups. You have to always think of your own safety and protection first in any relationship or interaction; you can't be casual about these things because you don't know the person. Usually you go and build trust with someone for a long time, but the psuedo anonymity of the net seems to short circuit things. I really think people need to keep game stuff in game a lot more than they do. Yes, its wrong for people to abuse your trust, but ultimately its you who have to deal with the cost and fallout, even if you are in the right. You can't rely on "well men SHOULDN't abuse" any more than "well men, SHOULDNT steal my car radio." Bad people happen, you must protect yourself as much as possible.

[BillyKaplan]

I mean, harassment usually has the connotation of power to it

Such power structures really don't have to be pre-existing. Not every person who found themselves in an abusive relationship was originally submissive to their abuser - these are things developed and groomed by the abuser over time and manifest in various ways. So you're not wrong in the statement I quoted, but you are in assuming that power is always there from the get-go.

[CainCrimson]

Over time I've had a handful of random players ask if I was gay. I always answer "Heh, no sorry but thank you for asking first :]"

Most of the people were chill about it, said sorry or laughed, then went about their business.

There were a few special friends however who went on to explicitly state why I should be gay and what I'm missing, one continued for about 2 minutes after I moved away.

*shrugs* I've experienced worse in night clubs.

[RiyahArp]

Such power structures really don't have to be pre-existing.

Well, i said it felt like an abusive ex. I don't think it can be called harassment though, those are two separate things. They have to be dealt with in two separate ways, and part of the way of preventively dealing with abuse is for you to be sure to protect yourself first by not rushing into a relationship without taking a long time to build trust. I feel sometimes we have this narrative where all the burden is on the other person, and people place way too much faith in others acting morally. Like the ideal and realistic clash.

Its just, well, the stakes are so high you can't be cavalier about escalating things.

its tough to write about this because i dont want to be seen as absolving the abuser. I mean, when people are in the wrong, they are in the wrong. But you don't want to get in the position of having to deal with one in the first place; you can only heal from injuries, not make it as if they never existed. I just really want to entreat people to protect themselves.

[Mikhaill]

Sexual harassment in mmorpg. Lol. Just blacklist ppl and stop being spoiled snowflake.

You realise people have ulterior motives and it's especially hidden well on the internet.
There are desperate, sad people on the internet and things can go south, fast.
It doesn't usually stop just from looking at someone's cat girl.
Some crazed pervert can get so indulged in you and then become
a stalker and it gets worse. Friends and families are involved, hacking, threats or anything.
Your response is really just...wow.

[Rogatum]

My question is what more could SE do to protect players from this? May sound cold but how is this anyone else's problem beside those it affects. SE has put tools in place use them while sure at times they can only be used after the fact but what more can SE or anyone else beside those that are involved can do?