Selling Ultimate Weapon Ultima Is Apparently Not Against the ToS

[Vhailor]

@vhalior: "Firstly, I'd suggest looking up the definition of the word ego. You're misapplying the word."

Self esteem or self worth. Or pride. Im misapplying nothing.

Nothing in my post was linked to self esteem, self worth, or pride. You are absolutely misapplying the word in my case. A sense of detachment from the world, a desire for immersion not based on outside wealth, is entirely distinct from this. If I were upset that other people were getting the same rewards as me, yes, your phrase would apply. I'm not. So you're either declaring that I'm lying - quite a stretch considering you don't know me - or you're simply being stubborn and hard-headed. I don't particularly care which, but you are 100% wrong in regards to your comments directed at me.

Also, I noticed you didn't bother addressing my comment about the loophole. That's the real problem here - a policy that bans one practice (RMT) while nonetheless permitting another practice (buying runs for Gil) that, coupled with SE's standard of proof requirements (in-game records), permits open and obvious RMT. Care to respond? You sure seem tough and aggressive when you're demeaning people's personal opinions and value systems around run-selling; do you have the same toughness when you can't just toss off some smart-ass remark to make your point? Because this is the core objective argument for banning run-selling entirely, beyond the numerous subjective ones.

[AshlikeSnow]

Who cares?? Its not your money or time thats being spent. Seems like you have way too much time, try doing other things like reading or exercising. This whole "cheapens the content" crap is crap. People who really want those items will invest their time and effort, and it seems there are people who want to pay for someone else's time and effort. Either way if you want you'll get it.

[Vnolan]

"Regarding Content Sales

It has come to our attention that players have been making use of third-party applications to bypass restrictions against Real Money Trading (RMT). As of patch 4.xx, the advertising of content sales in the Party Finder will be considered to be in violation of the Terms of Service (ToS). Players should report any Party Finder listing in violation of the ToS to the GMs."

All they have to do is put that out and the problem is dealt with. Any parties unaware of the change would get multiple warnings from the GMs before any serious action would be taken against them. The result? A smaller workload for the STF and GMs, no bans or punishment for anyone unless they really wanted it and no more RMT ads in the party finder.

[Musashidon]

while we are at it lets ban parser users too they are against ToS also.

[Vhailor]

Who cares?? Its not your money or time thats being spent. Seems like you have way too much time, try doing other things like reading or exercising. This whole "cheapens the content" crap is crap. People who really want those items will invest their time and effort, and it seems there are people who want to pay for someone else's time and effort. Either way if you want you'll get it.

Both opinions are valid, and comments like this - on both sides - are the real crap. There's nothing added to any discussion by attempting to invalidate someone else's opinion. I mean, are you really attempting to judge what other people find entertaining? That would be quite a display of arrogance, to project your opinion on entertainment over millions of other players.

A more tangible discussion, and what this thread and others highlight, is that the current ToS forbids RMT, while nevertheless containing a loophole the size of a billboard through which people can engage in RMT without fear of punishment. No matter what opinion one has of RMT, an ineffective policy is an issue, and should be corrected so as to even the playing field for everyone. Again, that boils down to either closing the loophole, or permitting RMT. Everyone's entitled to prefer one option or the other, but that boils down to personal preference, nothing more.

"Regarding Content Sales

It has come to our attention that players have been making use of third-party applications to bypass restrictions against Real Money Trading (RMT). As of patch 4.xx, the advertising of content sales in the Party Finder will be considered to be in violation of the Terms of Service (ToS). Players should report any Party Finder listing in violation of the ToS to the GMs."

All they have to do is put that out and the problem is dealt with. Any parties unaware of the change would get multiple warnings from the GMs before any serious action would be taken against them. The result? A smaller workload for the STF and GMs, no bans or punishment for anyone unless they really wanted it and no more RMT ads in the party finder.

Yup. This would completely resolve the loophole. Alternately, SE could go in the other direction and choose to officially sanction RMT, a la Diablo 3's initial release, and try to take a cut. Given Diablo 3's spectacular initial failure - something that rivaled XIV 1.0 in terms of disappointment - I'm not sure this would be advised, but it's consistent at least.

while we are at it lets ban parser users too they are against ToS also.

I personally wouldn't advocate banning them, but this is another area in which SE should either take action, or adjust the ToS so as to even the playing field. Right now, only those willing to break the ToS in order to utilize a parser get any benefits from them. If people are going to be permitted to use them so openly on private FC websites and the like, without fear of punishment, we've got a problem.

I should point out, incidentally, that SE has a long history of ignoring their own ToS, which I think is an issue. Windower, back in FFXI, was widely used by PC players, yet technically broke the ToS. This didn't serve anyone. It became a tool only for those who knew about it and felt comfortable with it, despite being a potentially valuable resource for all PC players. Considering SE had no effective way to curtail its use, they should have opened up the ToS in regards to it, so everyone could enjoy the functionality it offered. They're still doing it today.

[Vnolan]

while we are at it lets ban parser users too they are against ToS also.

If you put up a pf saying you will be parsing, nothing will happen. If you put up a pf saying you want to exchange services for real money, it would be taken down.

[HyoMinPark]

If you put up a pf saying you will be parsing, nothing will happen. If you put up a pf saying you want to exchange services for real money, it would be taken down.

Actually, towards the end of Deltascape, on Aether DC, people were going around reporting PFs advertising “parse runs” for the floors, and the PF leaders were getting messages from GMs about the PFs; and the PFs were taken down. However, such PFs do not harm anyone, as no one is forcing you to join parse runs for content, so I vehemently disagree with whoever was sitting on their high horse and felt the need to report PFs that literally did not concern or impact them in any way.

Something should be done about content sales PFs—while I don’t care what others spend their money on, I’m tired of seeing them clog up the Party Finder every time I open it up.

[Avatre]

so I vehemently disagree with whoever was sitting on their high horse and felt the need to report PFs that literally did not concern or impact them in any way.

It was quite likely someone who got booted from a party/raid group due to what appeared on their parse.

[Rubiss]

"Regarding Content Sales

It has come to our attention that players have been making use of third-party applications to bypass restrictions against Real Money Trading (RMT). As of patch 4.xx, the advertising of content sales in the Party Finder will be considered to be in violation of the Terms of Service (ToS). Players should report any Party Finder listing in violation of the ToS to the GMs."

All they have to do is put that out and the problem is dealt with. Any parties unaware of the change would get multiple warnings from the GMs before any serious action would be taken against them. The result? A smaller workload for the STF and GMs, no bans or punishment for anyone unless they really wanted it and no more RMT ads in the party finder.

Yes, it's a pretty simple solution.

[Zukissa]

So, if I group with the person who did this then their gear would be better and that would make the run smoother.