Ultimate hiatus feedback

[Sebazy]

Generally midcore is at that halfway point where they are good enough for some but not all content. When people ask for midcore content, they don't want more ultimates. You're being a bit too modest about your skills.

Gotta say, I don't agree with that.

Whenever I've seen midcore teams, it's been more about the time schedule than the skill of the players.

I've been part of and helped plenty of highly skilled teams with laid back schedules that described themselves as Midcore. The first example I was part of was Team Squirtle in Solitude back in FCOB/2.4. It's interesting to note on my logs that there's a gap of 71 days from my last 'hardcore group' kill of A3S to my 'midcore group's' first kill. We likely did a very approximate ~50 hours of progression in that time. That's not very hardcore in my book =s

To be fair I think the whole Midcore/hardcore thing has gotten pretty meaningless

And yeah, it's gotten pretty wishy-washy as this tangent demonstrates, it's pretty fair to say that an Entropy Gaming's 'Midcore' is still likely rather 'Hardcore' in some people's eyes. It's all rather dependent on your own perspective really.

[RiyahArp]

And that wasn't the definition. Midcore typically refers to statics with a shorter schedule or ones less interested in speed runs. There may be some leeway on interpretation but the term has never meant as you inferred. After all, Savage, in its entirely, is now midcore content now.

then when you ask for midcore content, what do you ask for? That was the whole point of the reddit threads, realizing there was this group of people called midcore that weren't getting content released to them. Suggestions were to flatten out savage by adding more fights and smooth out the difficulty more. It doesn't really mean time spent, because its possible to spend a lot of time on a fight and not beat it, it usually was raw skill.

You can argue savage is old midcore, but I don't think you can argue ultimate is midcore.

anyways, tangent. My point is still that you need to get more people completing savage and ultimate to show the devs that yes, there is an audience for three fights per tier. THat's the only fixable reason that can be addressed; if its like Sebazy says, then it doesn't matter if you ask for more if they don't have any man power to make it.

[Sebazy]

You can argue savage is old midcore, but I don't think you can argue ultimate is midcore.

I think we're seeing this in a slightly different perspective to each other.

If we're talking purely from the perspective of getting a clear, then yes. Killing Ultimate Coil was 100% hardcore territory, it takes a lot of dedication and consistency within a team to clear that. UWU hasn't turned out quite as bad, but it's still a good way beyond the likes of A3S, A4S or A8S.

However, simply stepping foot in and seeing how far you can go before you hit the wall? Don't need to be hardcore to have a go sir <3

[Squintina]

Instead of going over terms of what's midcore vs hardcore (difficulty) and casual vs noncasual (frequency), let's just go with this anecdote.

A bunch of people I know where watching someone stream a UwU prog, and among them were:

A person who hasn't beaten UwU but did try it a few times. Said person doesn't think he will ever clear, he simply wanted to see how far he'd get and experience at least some of the fight for himself.
Another person who has beaten O5S-O8S, but has already decided not to try Ultimate
Another person who has beaten O5S-O7S, still working on O8S
Another person who has beaten O5S and O6S, and tried O7S but stopped and is unsure of whether to try again because wiping to O7S so many times was demoralizing
Another person who has no intention to seriously do Savage, but did do Current Trial EX
Another person who hasn't done Current Trial Ex and whose most difficult content done is expert roulette and Hunts and has no interest in going to harder content

Ultimate can be an enjoyment for a lot of people even if they never clear, nor attempt, it.

And when that streamer finally beat it, they were super thrilled!

And while they were watching, they were pretty much doing nothing on their own characters except simple things like marketboard, chatting and emoting, so as not to get distracted in case the streamer got further or had an awesome clip. So in a way Watching ultimate slightly extends the longevity of other content because it's not actively being worked on.

[KShrike]

There's plenty of midcore raiders I know that went in just to see if they can kill Garuda, and similarly these same people went into Bahamut seeing if they could at least kill Twintania.

They were thrilled when they beat Twintania, lol. Everyone enjoys this content. You'd have to be the most spiteful, salty, player in the world to be **against** ultimate's existence.

They're similarly disappointed with the lack of 4.5 ultimate.

[jameseoakes]

There's plenty of midcore raiders I know that went in just to see if they can kill Garuda, and similarly these same people went into Bahamut seeing if they could at least kill Twintania.

They were thrilled when they beat Twintania, lol. Everyone enjoys this content. You'd have to be the most spiteful, salty, player in the world to be **against** ultimate's existence.

They're similarly disappointed with the lack of 4.5 ultimate.

'Everyone' seems like a bit of an exaggeration, the last clear rates for O8S I saw where pretty miserable so only a very small part of the player base can even get in there.

[HyoMinPark]

'Everyone' seems like a bit of an exaggeration, the last clear rates for O8S I saw where pretty miserable so only a very small part of the player base can even get in there.

To be fair, of you're referring to LuckyBancho's census, he even states that the clear rates are based off of having the mount present on the Lodestone since so many people keep achievements private. When his last census had came out, I had cleared God Kefka, but I had no mount. So I wasn't counted in that census. Something to keep in mind.

[jameseoakes]

To be fair, of you're referring to LuckyBancho's census, he even states that the clear rates are based off of having the mount present on the Lodestone since so many people keep achievements private. When his last census had came out, I had cleared God Kefka, but I had no mount. So I wasn't counted in that census. Something to keep in mind.

Perhaps but I actually don't see that much higher savage gear in game so I don't think that the clear rate can be very impressive

[Bourne_Endeavor]

then when you ask for midcore content, what do you ask for? That was the whole point of the reddit threads, realizing there was this group of people called midcore that weren't getting content released to them. Suggestions were to flatten out savage by adding more fights and smooth out the difficulty more. It doesn't really mean time spent, because its possible to spend a lot of time on a fight and not beat it, it usually was raw skill.

You can argue savage is old midcore, but I don't think you can argue ultimate is midcore.

anyways, tangent. My point is still that you need to get more people completing savage and ultimate to show the devs that yes, there is an audience for three fights per tier. THat's the only fixable reason that can be addressed; if its like Sebazy says, then it doesn't matter if you ask for more if they don't have any man power to make it.

When people ask for midcore content, they generally mean something that poses a challenge. This ranges from EX Primals and current Savage, though it could even include dungeons if a Mythic+ equivalent were ever implemented. Adding more fights to Savage would, indeed, being increasing the midcore content. And would alleviate complaints people have over how easy the initial two encounters have become.

No one is arguing Ultimate is midcore. Sebazy merely stated midcore statics can still attempt it. They may perceive themselves midcore throughout because of a lax schedule. In terms of skill, I'd classify completing Ultimate hardcore. Even pushing into Ultima phase means you're a step above the rest imo.

If that were the criteria, PvP should be deleted from the game immediately. I once again reiterate, you cannot compare Savage to the whole of FFXIV. Every piece of content is essentially one slice of a larger pie. The game has numerous niche activities that make up its core. In fact, Lucky Bancho's census has shown not even 50% of players bother to finish up to the most recent MSQ. The whole purpose behind a Theme Park MMO is something for everyone. Ultimate is something for the hardcore raiders when Savage became watered down.

[lulunami]

Would this be a fair categorization of content difficulty?

Easy mode: Deltascape (Normal), Sigmascape (Normal), any story mode primal, and arguably Lakshmi EX?
Normal mode: Deltascape (Savage), Sigmascape (Savage), Final Coil of Bahamut, Shinryu EX, Tsukiyomi EX, Thordan EX
Hard mode: Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage), Alexander Gordias (Savage), Alexander Midas (Savage)
Ultra mode: Bahamut Ultimate, Ultima Ultimate

Hardcore raiders will usually advocate Hard or Ultra mode difficulty. The game really lacks content in the Normal mode difficulty that so-called midcore players want, I presume.