Ultimate hiatus feedback

[HyoMinPark]

'Everyone' seems like a bit of an exaggeration, the last clear rates for O8S I saw where pretty miserable so only a very small part of the player base can even get in there.

To be fair, of you're referring to LuckyBancho's census, he even states that the clear rates are based off of having the mount present on the Lodestone since so many people keep achievements private. When his last census had came out, I had cleared God Kefka, but I had no mount. So I wasn't counted in that census. Something to keep in mind.

[jameseoakes]

To be fair, of you're referring to LuckyBancho's census, he even states that the clear rates are based off of having the mount present on the Lodestone since so many people keep achievements private. When his last census had came out, I had cleared God Kefka, but I had no mount. So I wasn't counted in that census. Something to keep in mind.

Perhaps but I actually don't see that much higher savage gear in game so I don't think that the clear rate can be very impressive

[lulunami]

Would this be a fair categorization of content difficulty?

Easy mode: Deltascape (Normal), Sigmascape (Normal), any story mode primal, and arguably Lakshmi EX?
Normal mode: Deltascape (Savage), Sigmascape (Savage), Final Coil of Bahamut, Shinryu EX, Tsukiyomi EX, Thordan EX
Hard mode: Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage), Alexander Gordias (Savage), Alexander Midas (Savage)
Ultra mode: Bahamut Ultimate, Ultima Ultimate

Hardcore raiders will usually advocate Hard or Ultra mode difficulty. The game really lacks content in the Normal mode difficulty that so-called midcore players want, I presume.

[jameseoakes]

Would this be a fair categorization of content difficulty?

Easy mode: Deltascape (Normal), Sigmascape (Normal), any story mode primal, and arguably Lakshmi EX?
Normal mode: Deltascape (Savage), Sigmascape (Savage), Final Coil of Bahamut, Shinryu EX, Tsukiyomi EX, Thordan EX
Hard mode: Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage), Alexander Gordias (Savage), Alexander Midas (Savage)
Ultra mode: Bahamut Ultimate, Ultima Ultimate

Hardcore raiders will usually advocate Hard or Ultra mode difficulty. The game really lacks content in the Normal mode difficulty that so-called midcore players want, I presume.

I'd say that way underestimates the difficulty of some of the content, and I'd say shows off the patronising attitude of the higher levels raiders. The current savage fights are still very channelling fights and I do hate the attitude that runs through these treads that they're easy. They might not be as challenging as you want but they are still hard fights.

[HyoMinPark]

I'd say that way underestimates the difficulty of some of the content, and I'd say shows off the patronising attitude of the higher levels raiders. The current savage fights are still very channelling fights and I do hate the attitude that runs through these treads that they're easy. They might not be as challenging as you want but they are still hard fights.

If you are comparing them to their predecessors, they are ridiculously easy—Alte Rolte could barely be considered Savage; same with Catastrophe. Phantom Train was an improvement, but Chadarnook is, again, another striking dummy with very few mechanics that can actually endanger a group unless the group is just all over the place. Both Deltascape and Sigmascape are easier than Creator, which was easier than Midas, which was easier than Gordias (albeit Gordias was admitted to be overtuned for its maximum gear at the time).

I’d also say that a lot of raiders would consider Thordan Ex on an entirely separate level compared to the other Extremes, especially at launch. Him and Sephirot were no pushovers, and were definitely harder than TsukuEx mechanically—I’d say she’s probably between Sophia and Nidhogg Ex, though closer to Sophia than Nidhogg. I personally think Thordan Ex is harder than Halicarnassus and Guardian if you think to how he was at launch and all the stuff you had to deal with mechanically.

I edited it a bit; Delta and Sigma aren't quite on the same level as Shinryu, Tsukuyomi and Thordan EX in terms of difficulty. I'd say they're a cut or so above.

I’d honestly wager to say that Thordan Ex at launch is competing with Neo and God Kefka in terms of difficulty. Shinryu is challenging, but I personally find him easier than Halicarnassus. Not Guardian though; I think Guardian is relatively easily if you look at his mechanics.



To bring the conversation back to the topic at hand, if the developers are insistent on taking away the harder content from the raiders in 4.5 (Ultimate), then they should up the difficulty of Savage, or add a fifth and/or sixth floor that are on the same difficulty level as A8S. That’s really the only compromise I can personally be okay with.

[jameseoakes]

If you are comparing them to their predecessors, they are ridiculously easy—Alte Rolte could barely be considered Savage; same with Catastrophe. Phantom Train was an improvement, but Chadarnook is, again, another striking dummy with very few mechanics that can actually endanger a group unless the group is just all over the place. Both Deltascape and Sigmascape are easier than Creator, which was easier than Midas, which was easier than Gordias (albeit Gordias was admitted to be overtuned for its maximum gear at the time).

I’d also say that a lot of raiders would consider Thordan Ex on an entirely separate level compared to the other Extremes, especially at launch. Him and Sephirot were no pushovers, and were definitely harder than TsukuEx mechanically—I’d say she’s probably between Sophia and Nidhogg Ex, though closer to Sophia than Nidhogg. I personally think Thordan Ex is harder than Halicarnassus and Guardian if you think to how he was at launch and all the stuff you had to deal with mechanically.

To bring the conversation back to the topic at hand, if the developers are insistent on taking away the harder content from the raiders in 4.5 (Ultimate), then they should up the difficulty of Savage, or add a fifth and/or sixth floor that are on the same difficulty level as A8S. That’s really the only compromise I can personally be okay with.

To call them normal difficulty fights is pretty insulting. Gordias did seem to show how little interest there was in content of that difficulty without something to feed into it (which I think why Ultimate is a better idea than that) and how much damage it did seem to do to the raid scene.

[HyoMinPark]

To call them normal difficulty fights is pretty insulting. Gordias did seem to show how little interest there was in content of that difficulty without something to feed into it (which I think why Ultimate is a better idea than that) and how much damage it did seem to do to the raid scene.

Gordias did the damage it did to the raid scene because it was overtuned for the maximum ilvl gear there was at the time, and the developers admitted as such. You could not beat A4S without having a max ilvl weapon. It was literally impossible to do. It wasn’t that the difficulty of the mechanics are what turned people off of it—it was the fact that it was literally impossible to clear without the best gear, and DPS from all party members, including tanks and healers was required to meet the checks due to, again, them being overtuned.

Obviously, Deltascape and Sigmascape Savage are harder than “normal difficulty fights”—but some of the latest Savage fights can barely call themselves “Savage” if you look at past Savage encounters—they are closer in difficulty to old Extremes, which in turn are slowly losing what actually made them “Extreme” (looking at you, Byakko Ex and Lakshmi Ex). Though, I would say Alte Rolte is about as hard as a 24-man boss. Difficulty is subjective, but if you look at current Savage compared to older Savage, it’s very easy to say objectively which fights were the harder, more “Savage” fights.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To call them normal difficulty fights is pretty insulting. Gordias did seem to show how little interest there was in content of that difficulty without something to feed into it (which I think why Ultimate is a better idea than that) and how much damage it did seem to do to the raid scene.

Not really given the context provided. When compared against Godias and Midas, Delta and Sigma are essentially a normal equivalent. The difficulty between the two is staggering. Admittedly, I wouldn't categorize an entire tier like that though because while say, Cruise Chaser isn't on the same level as Living Liquid, it remains a challenging fight. Alte Roite though has no business being labeled Savage. When you can clear with 13 deaths in less than an hour week one, it's not Savage.

[lulunami]

I'd say that way underestimates the difficulty of some of the content, and I'd say shows off the patronising attitude of the higher levels raiders. The current savage fights are still very channelling fights and I do hate the attitude that runs through these treads that they're easy. They might not be as challenging as you want but they are still hard fights.

I was not trying to be patronizing. Perhaps I am partially biased, but that is my opinion of the relative difficulty based on my experience through all that content. I do confess that I could have been more granular with my assessment, but not everyone is going to agree on categories or labels.

[Dualgunner]

Would this be a fair categorization of content difficulty?

Easy: Deltascape (Normal), Sigmascape (Normal), any story mode primal, and arguably Lakshmi EX?
Normal: Shinryu EX, Tsukiyomi EX, Thordan EX
Hard: Deltascape (Savage), Sigmascape (Savage), Final Coil of Bahamut
Very Hard: Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage), Alexander Gordias (Savage), Alexander Midas (Savage)
Nightmare: Bahamut Ultimate, Ultima Ultimate

I edited it a bit; Delta and Sigma aren't quite on the same level as Shinryu, Tsukuyomi and Thordan EX in terms of difficulty. I'd say they're a cut or so above.