So about Summoner...

[Wayfinder3]

We can cover emergency raises if we have swiftcast. We're very limited in that aspect and outside of progression, we tend to use swiftcast offensively for optimizing rotations (pet swaps, etc), so our raise is kinda bad in that aspect. Without swiftcast, we lose far more raising than RDM does, and RDM can raise multiple times in quick succession.

you don't "HAVE" to use your swiftcast for the SC ruin 3 and you could hold it incase of a death. you're limited but you're still flexible in that way. Kinda like Vercure, i guess you could use it to heal up the tank or anybody else, but it comes at a loss to rdm dps. So it's not really that different, both jobs have to make sacrifices for utility. it's just a shame that it's rdm's core utility

[xxPheNoMeNa]

you don't "HAVE" to use your swiftcast for the SC ruin 3 and you could hold it incase of a death. you're limited but you're still flexible in that way. Kinda like Vercure, i guess you could use it to heal up the tank or anybody else, but it comes at a loss to rdm dps. So it's not really that different, both jobs have to make sacrifices for utility. it's just a shame that it's rdm's core utility

For prog you want to hold swiftcast, but post prog we'd use swiftcast for optimizing things. Vercure is pretty useless post prog, but during prog if a healer is late on a heal (or dead) and someone just needs an emergency heal, Vercure can be extremely useful (I used it multiple times the few lockouts I played RDM in UWU). I can lose a gcd to keep someone alive in prog or let them die and potentially wipe for it. Easy choice

[Wayfinder3]

For prog you want to hold swiftcast, but post prog we'd use swiftcast for optimizing things. Vercure is pretty useless post prog, but during prog if a healer is late on a heal (or dead) and someone just needs an emergency heal, Vercure can be extremely useful (I used it multiple times the few lockouts I played RDM in UWU). I can lose a gcd to keep someone alive in prog or let them die and potentially wipe for it. Easy choice

Agreed, prog is the most important thing here. it's no suprise that rdm loses it's value after prog as time goes on. you don't keep your training wheels on after you've learned to ride. You also no longer crawl, once you've learned to walk. RDM is worse out of progression by that logic and no highly skilled player can argue that

[xxPheNoMeNa]

Agreed, prog is the most important thing here. it's no suprise that rdm loses it's value after prog as time goes on. you don't keep your training wheels on after you've learned to ride. You also no longer crawl, once you've learned to walk. RDM is worse out of progression by that logic and no highly skilled player can argue that

I don't argue that, but I don't think that should matter for most people. Unless you're actually optimizing, damage numbers should not matter unless you're in risk of enrage. Beyond that, it's just this circle jerk of an fflogs culture that the raiding community has developed and everyone is concerned with numbers (granted I worry about that stuff, but I enjoy optimizing in raids and being "bleeding edge" so to speak. Not everyone is like me and that's perfectly fine, but if you're not then you shouldn't worry about why "x" class is better than "y").

[Wayfinder3]

I don't argue that, but I don't think that should matter for most people. Unless you're actually optimizing, damage numbers should not matter unless you're in risk of enrage. Beyond that, it's just this circle jerk of an fflogs culture that the raiding community has developed and everyone is concerned with numbers (granted I worry about that stuff, but I enjoy optimizing in raids and being "bleeding edge" so to speak. Not everyone is like me and that's perfectly fine, but if you're not then you shouldn't worry about why "x" class is better than "y").

Unfortunately it's too late for that now, i don't see any sort of change in the mindset of players unless they see it for themselves