No cleric stance, next should be no tank stance?

[RiyahArp]

The point i was replying to Maeka with is that you actually could not need a dedicated tank stance/dps stance, because using the dps combos generate much less enmity over time than the modifiers on the enmity combo. If you use tank stance, its still even the case, because your increased damage is still less enmity than your normal damage plus modifiers. We kind of got all over the place because I think the point I'm making isn't coming across well. Even with tank stance up, you can lose hate if you focus solely on dpsing; if the dps are good enough they can pull it off you.

So you could rework it some, because its the moves and whether or not they specifically increase enmity some that matters a lot. Thats how we can tank in dps stance I think, because certain moves themselves still generate a lot of enmity even without the stance. I'm not sure there's much benefit in reworking it as it, because it wouldn't change gameplay that much though.

[SendohJin]

Do you even tank? Tank stances improve enmity and reduce damage. Provoke will only put you at top of the list. Shirk diverts enmity towards target. What good would provoke do if they can't keep enmity if it's based on stats or gear? Tanking requires some type of common sense and skill, some people who know their Job can do i ( a very small hand full of players. ) Is everyone else suppose to slow down theirs?

you're not using Shirk right.

False, even as a OT tank I have taken hate away from main tank using OT stance stance, or using non enmity combos. DRG / NIN /MNK and most jobs can easily over power a tanks dmg ratio if they are competent enough with their job and properly geared if tank is not using tank stance.

And this makes it sound like you've never played with NINs that do their jobs right either. An OT can't take hate away from the main tank if the OT Shirks most of their hate to the MT every time they come close.

[ManuelBravo]

you're not using Shirk right.



And this makes it sound like you've never played with NINs that do their jobs right either. An OT can't take hate away from the main tank if the OT Shirks most of their hate to the MT every time they come close.

First yes I do use Shirk ( Don't recall if it's still 25% enmity diversion or it has been increased ) just does not help when MT can't do their job properly and you are correct I have not played with a Decent NIN while tanking only helped as NIN to help MT feel more competent -.-; Best solution give them tips, if Not I just take over. Only thing you can do really. It's even dumber when their making the healers job harder by not being properly gear thinking they are helping the situation.

[shao32]

First yes I do use Shirk ( Don't recall if it's still 25% enmity diversion or it has been increased ) just does not help when MT can't do their job properly and you are correct I have not played with a Decent NIN while tanking only helped as NIN to help MT feel more competent -.-; Best solution give them tips, if Not I just take over. Only thing you can do really. It's even dumber when their making the healers job harder by not being properly gear thinking they are helping the situation.

actually it can help when the MT can't hold the emity properly, if the OT use provoke and after that shirk on the MT the OT just give a 25% of the total emity MT have for free, thats and removing the request of getting on tank stace or using any emity combos on tank swaps is why shirk is OP.

[Ghastly]

Solution for warrior could that they could tie Fell cleave and Decimate to Berserk/Inner release, inner beast would be usable with or without berserk/inner release.

[ManuelBravo]

actually it can help when the MT can't hold the emity properly, if the OT use provoke and after that shirk on the MT the OT just give a 25% of the total emity MT have for free, thats and removing the request of getting on tank stace or using any emity combos on tank swaps is why shirk is OP.

great combo if you have a competent tank dual and a healer that can keep up without the 20% def increase and enmity boost. Those would fall under the few handful of people that can tank and heal. For the most players -.- not really. If you notice most tanks don't even use CD's properly no surprise that they can't even keep hate without stance.

[shao32]

great combo if you have a competent tank dual and a healer that can keep up without the 20% def increase and enmity boost. Those would fall under the few handful of people that can tank and heal. For the most players -.- not really. If you notice most tanks don't even use CD's properly no surprise that they can't even keep hate without stance.

Well is more about the emity that the defense, no healer Will struggle on that field since 20% dosent change the number of heals you need to top it.
In the end is a problem of desing more that players doing bad they Jobs, play a tank properly go against tank stances thats why they need to be fixed or remove to make tanking learning curve more straightforward and not so troublemaking especially on average skill players.

[SendohJin]

First yes I do use Shirk ( Don't recall if it's still 25% enmity diversion or it has been increased ) just does not help when MT can't do their job properly

there's a difference between using it and using it right. most of your posts is based on players playing poorly.

[ManuelBravo]

there's a difference between using it and using it right. most of your posts is based on players playing poorly.

Well I did mention, if you were properly reading them, that there are only a handful of players that actually do it right. Yes I am aware and I understand that everyone has their own pace, however these are the results when a game is nerfed when it's easy enough to begin with -.-. They get over confident and forget the basics or mechanics. I'm not a perfect tank, yet I am above average. I know there is a learning curve, however that does not mean tanks should avoid the basic principles of 101 tanking or mechanics.

[ManuelBravo]

Well is more about the emity that the defense, no healer Will struggle on that field since 20% dosent change the number of heals you need to top it.
In the end is a problem of desing more that players doing bad they Jobs, play a tank properly go against tank stances thats why they need to be fixed or remove to make tanking learning curve more straightforward and not so troublemaking especially on average skill players.

True to an extend, however you have to agree, tank stances does help healers whoa re still learning and are not confident. That boost in defense and enmity increase generation comes in handy. I will agree some stances can be a pain and only really useful if no TP or MP is available. Example Shield Oath. 75 to auto attacks? Should be more of a 15% DMG increase to actions rather auto attacks, as a suggestion.