So about Summoner...

[Dualgunner]

oh u wanna talk about facts and fairness? than tell me how fair smns last 3 years past was, were they never took the slightest role in raiding at all? hmm.. but well like you opend your hypocratical post "enough with bias replies" k?

You mean the two years before halfway through Creator, right, because SMN was just as OP if not more during 4.1. And if you are, then it's not BLM's fault SMN was in that spot because BLM was in the same spot. Neither caster was forced to switch to another caster, they were forced to switch to MCH/BRD.

[Neela]

I never said its blm fault hell I just don't understand why people complain since 2 of 3 caster nowadays can take part in raiding with no doubts - but no instead being happy with that its more about who got the longer one of these two... but well I guess its humanity people won't find happiness without complaining.

[wereotter]

You can't really use "BLM is better at X fight in a tier, therefore SMN is okay!" as an argument as a static isn't likely to have the perfect roles for every right, forcing people to change jobs every step of the way. You're not going to have someone be a MNK for O6s then be NIN in O7s because it's more efficient because aside from expecting a person to be able to play both jobs with equal levels of proficiency, you also have to take into consideration gear progression.

As a result, most groups I've ran into aren't using RDM or BLM for a caster slot because SMN outshines them in the big picture. So that's either a failing or the raid tier giving each job a chance to really shine so that taking any caster job is viable for a raid static, or it's a problem with the jobs being imbalanced, and in my opinion, it's probably a little of both, especially when comparing RDM to SMN.

The utility and mobility packages of the two jobs are comparable, with most of the time SMN having better utility, and RDM having arguably better, though only in short bursts, mobility. As such the two jobs should be outputting damage much closer to each other than they actually are. SMN might be slightly over turned at the moment, and RDM definitely needs a buff (I think the devs over valued the utility benefits of Vercure and Verraise) OR RDM needs better mana management to make that utility viable... or both.

[Zerathor]

Also to all the smn that cry " we've only been in the DPS meta for a little bit"

How many first clears have a blm? It's neat that smn is now a competitive dps, but they've always been the best prog tool job without much drawback. Even while they were at their "low"

Hell, go count how many black mages are clearing content vs smn. Tell me how many ucob smn clears there are vs the SIX black mages. Even in savage blm is utterly dwarfed in clears. The LEAST clears. Why do you reckon that is? Because they're equally viable options, right? Keep explaining how smn doesn't greatly outclass all casters. Or this delusion that they weren't useful in prog even when they weren't part of speed clearing.

[Neela]

zera u shouldn't use superlatives like "always" if u don't know what u are talking about... it makes u look pitiful. and your provocative "mimimi" won't help to show that u actually got the point. if u want that people take u serious take a look at dualgunner or wereotter maybe u can train your softskills that way. anyway u don't know anything about smns in my opinion so please stop talking.

[Zerathor]

zera u shouldn't use superlatives like "always" if u don't know what u are talking about... it makes u look pitiful. and your provocative "mimimi" won't help to show that u actually got the point. if u want that people take u serious take a look at dualgunner or wereotter maybe u can train your softskills that way. anyway u don't know anything about smns in my opinion so please stop talking.

Apparently I know enough about them to beat you on smn with minimal experience. Do say more. Explain in depth this hidden knowledge of smn to me please. Are you going to meme me with the "le spoooooky 90 second rotation, oooOOOoOooOooOoo" ? you call me pitiful? Try the mirror.

[RainDurell]

oh u wanna talk about facts and fairness? than tell me how fair smns last 3 years past was, were they never took the slightest role in raiding at all? hmm.. but well like you opend your hypocratical post "enough with bias replies" k?

The previous state of the balance between jobs is completely irrelevant in discussing the balance of jobs in the present. And you LITERALLY displayed your own unfair bias towards SMN just now.

[DaulBan]

Saying that you’re upset you have to play another caster instead of the one you want to play is a game you’ve intentionally set up to be in your favour, because nowhere here do you talk about how unfair it is that MNK and MCH (or the rest of the DPS) are so good, and they’re the other shoe-ins for the fourth DPS slot. Really if you’re going to complain about SMN you should be complaining about the others, and if you’re not you’re just engaging in the circle jerk political drama of whether or not it’s fair that a job is better than yours.

MCH and MNK are arguably better than either RDM or BLM in the fourth raid slot so you should be harping about how good those are too right? I mean it’s only fair. Restricting the conversation to ‘just casters’ is a convenient red herring to pretend that SMN itself is the source of your strife as some other caster, when in fact it’s how bad your current job is. Full stop.

If you sincerely cannot stomach the fact that you aren’t playing the best possible job then you should be clamoring for buffs to your job, not nerfs to SMN. It doesn’t make casters any better than the jobs they’re competing with, it still makes it so that the other jobs I listed are better and you should play them instead. Not that that’s what this topic is about since it’s focusing on one job, not literally every job that isn’t RDM/SAM/BLM.

SMN is better than BLM or RDM. But then again so are most other jobs in the game, and unless you're calling for a blanket nerf to every other job too to me this seems vindictive and silly.

[Dualgunner]

OP didn't call for a nerf or for a buff. I called for a buff so that RDM and BLM could be competitive again, which on its own immediately solves those problems DaulBan.

Also Daul, see his other post:

Heck, let's stop talking about BLM for a second. How is it fair that SMN does SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than MNK NIN DRG BRD MCH RDM in most fights, while bringing about the same amount of utility as atleast half of them, and remaining absolutely mobile for the entirety of the fight? Isn't mobility and big utility the reason why BRD/MCH are designed to be weaker in personal DPS? Sure they have considerably better utility than SMN, but the margin between BRD/MCH and SMN is way too big if the reason is just having slightly less utility than them.

I never said its blm fault

Regarding this, your statement about how for the past three years SMN had no role in raiding at all comes with the connotation that you're saying BLM did, when BLM didn't either. Basically, it sounds like you're saying "Not being in the meta as a caster" is uniquely a SMN issue they dealt with, which is why I responded with what I did.

[Sunako]

How many first clears have a blm?

There is few world first for blm if you wanna see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDJde_SZfNw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W54tETcM-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iewfOmHjwYU&t=