So about Summoner...

[Dualgunner]

... Play Summoner, then?

That's the only answer a lot of raiding casters have right now. Downside is the casters do not have the same gameplay loop; the challenges BLM finds fun are not present in SMN, and vice-versa. Same with RDM compared to either of its peers. However, to play the job we want that has the gameplay we want, we have to sacrifice just how powerful SMN, and the whole group has to deal with that decision as well.

[RainDurell]

My first criteria to playing a job is how much I enjoy it, not how it fares in the meta. I posted this thread for the very purpose or trying to raise awareness for the unfairness.

[TelosNox]

My first criteria to playing a job is how much I enjoy it, not how it fares in the meta.

I absolutely agree with that. I like the Jobmechanics of RDM a lot. But the job is so bad balanced, that it is not fun to play just because of the damn low dps.

[Zerathor]

... Play Summoner, then?

This mentality needs to die.

[Tsurayu]

My first criteria to playing a job is how much I enjoy it, not how it fares in the meta. I posted this thread for the very purpose or trying to raise awareness for the unfairness.

And yet you are comparing their damage, which considering the only place most people care about damage comparisons is in the meta, smells a bit like you are just trying to say whatever you can to make it sound like you are being fair, when you aren't.

[Zerathor]

And yet you are comparing their damage, which considering the only place most people care about damage comparisons is in the meta, smells a bit like you are just trying to say whatever you can to make it sound like you are being fair, when you aren't.

OR you know, they could be noting that it's unfair that casters are shoehorned into playing smn, or else it hurts their selves and their group, and it's a little bit annoying.

As it stands there are two options:
-Smn has too much dps for the utility they bring

Or

-blm has too small of a dps gain (and only for SOME fights, it needs to be ALL) for the complete lack of any unique utility

I swear, smn mains are almost as bad as warriors when it comes to any other job trying to be competitive with them.

[RainDurell]

And yet you are comparing their damage, which considering the only place most people care about damage comparisons is in the meta, smells a bit like you are just trying to say whatever you can to make it sound like you are being fair, when you aren't.

I said enjoyability was my first criteria, it doesn't mean I don't care about how viable they are, I said it in order to explain why I play BLM over SMN.

[Dualgunner]

And yet you are comparing their damage, which considering the only place most people care about damage comparisons is in the meta, smells a bit like you are just trying to say whatever you can to make it sound like you are being fair, when you aren't.

Good weasel word, "most." Has a connotation of being a large number, but not specific, and therefore the claimant neither needs to back it up, nor is ever technically wrong.

Zerathor said what I basically wanted to say, but I'll add the RDM perspective too. BLM don't give enough damage to be above SMN, and RDM don't give enough support to be above SMN. It doesn't matter which of the two you play, you're holding the group back by not playing SMN, and not everybody finds SMN fun.

[Zerathor]

Good weasel word, "most." Has a connotation of being a large number, but not specific, and therefore the claimant neither needs to back it up, nor is ever technically wrong.

Zerathor said what I basically wanted to say, but I'll add the RDM perspective too. BLM don't give enough damage to be above SMN, and RDM don't give enough support to be above SMN. It doesn't matter which of the two you play, you're holding the group back by not playing SMN, and not everybody finds SMN fun.

I really wish i could add more for the rdm perspective of things, but I don't rdm at all. I think it'd be cool if rdm ended up losing a little of their raise power (maybe make ver'raise a 1 min cd instant cast) in favor for more bard'ish defensive/rdps boosting power or something, to maintain the title of a support caster yet be a far more viable group addition.

either way, all caster roles should be far more competitive than they currently are.

[Dualgunner]

As a RDM main, verraise is a cancer. I agree, if RDM could be more like the Bard or Ninja of the casters, having low DPS in exchange for high utility, I wouldn't mind at all.

BLM and RDM do need to be raised to SMN's level though I would say; nerfing SMN just puts double ranged back in and tbh double ranged is an annoying meta too. How they would do that for BLM is raising damage even more, so its personal damage is markedly superior to SMN's. For RDM...there are lots of ideas rolling around, but delete verraise*, remove Embolden's weird restrictions, perhaps modify mana generation so its bursts line up with the minute-to-minute trick windows, perhaps a mantra-like ability to help outgoing healing are some buffs I've heard that sound good on the face.

*put it on a minute long CD or something.