Stop spamming Medica I & II/diurnal Aspected Helios

[Alaray]

No, I don't really think that's anything to write home about. Sorry, but I really don't. 60 seconds is a blink-and-you'll-miss-it type thing on fights as easy as Phantom Train.

If you don't want to improve or become a better player, you can say so.

If you want to play a game that's designed around extremely high healing uptime, World of Warcraft is designed with that in mind and would prove more fun for that mindset. FFXIV isn't set up that way.

People who overheal constantly and do 0 damage contribution aren't good players in this game. That's just a fact. Yeah, bad play can get you through normal. A 1.5k DPS SAM can get you through normal. But it doesn't mean you know what you're doing or have an authority to claim as such.

Additionally, overhealing is generating stupid amounts of enmity that doesn't need to exist. You're making it actively harder on your other party members and forcing them to carry your missing contribution.

[MoroMurasaki]

A whole post misunderstanding the point and patting yourself on the back for being wrong.

In sigma normal I have been first in dps as a WAR in phantom train. I hardly know how to play WAR. I've been third on WHM.

Yes, in a vacuum where all dps are pulling over 4k support roles optimizing for dps may not be as important but in the current DF climate where you can see dps under 2k rather frequently... it can be a lot more noticible.

[CreinCrein]

60 seconds is an entire phase, bypassing dozens of mechanics that could cause potential wipes on any of the savage floors, in addition to ultimate. Also adds up when you're farming casual content.

[Maeka]

I think people are grossly misunderstanding my position here.

1). I am not advocating constant egregious over-healing, nor am I saying that it's fine to constantly be healing for 0s. Obviously not.
2). I am not saying that I do such a thing myself. Sometimes I throw heals where I'm over-healing by 50% or so, but meh. Sometimes I like to avoid even more wastes of time because of DPS dropping dead because they decide to eat the AoEs repeatedly. That or I just wanted a Medica 2 regen on before a damage phase.

What I *am* saying, is that it's not the end of the world if you get a healer who is nervous and is doing more overhealing than you'd like. I AM saying that a little overheal isn't THAT big of an issue.

And I'm saying the OP is perhaps jumping on a matter that's not really That big of an issue. I've yet to see a single healer that stands around and does nothing but spam heals on people who are full. I've not seen that a single time, so I wonder just how widespread this REALLY is.

@CreinCrein: Again people bringing up Savage when we're talking about Duty Finder.........

[Alaray]

And I'm saying the OP is perhaps jumping on a matter that's not really That big of an issue. I've yet to see a single healer that stands around and does nothing but spam heals on people who are full. I've not seen that a single time, so I wonder just how widespread this REALLY is.

@CreinCrein: Again people bringing up Savage when we're talking about Duty Finder.........

Then you missed the OP's point, which was less about new healers, and more about healer main players who do those things (and they do, I have encountered a number of them). It's a bit of a wash to say "it doesn't matter" because the personal contribution from a healer does matter, and players who are new to the role should try to practice it than be told by someone it's "unimportant" and then go onwards with that mindset and hinder themselves and potentially their groups -- even in normal.


And yeah, sometimes keeping a DPS up is worth it. Sometimes it's not.

I've had plenty of healers out DPS the DPS players. I'd rather the healer keep that up and get around to picking up the dead guy when they get the chance to (or for a RDM to raise them, or a SMN). There are also plenty of tanks who pull more damage contribution than the DPS do, especially in DF/PF settings.

I'm not a good healer. I have a lot of bad habits on the class because I don't tend to main them, but I know plenty of people who main heal and are legitimately fantastic players in their own right. But, at the end of the day, even if you're talking about a new player who wants to improve, they should be given the tool to improve and not a "uh it's not important just spam medica."

And from some replies in this thread, there are a lot of people who think overhealing and doing nothing else is absolutely optimal when it's not in this game. If it didn't matter, or was negligible at best, the thread probably wouldn't exist.

( However, in Savage content and EX content which, I know this isn't primarily about, healer damage output matters a *lot* more and can be the difference between Enrage or not. Practice is built through the content that came before, one doesn't step into Savage and immediately change the playstyle they think is correct... thus, bad habits born from DF come into play).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

My napkin math was pretty much spot-on.

Thanks for proving that tho.

So spot on it your highest estimation was literally half of the actual results. That's the equivalent of 2+2=5. It was flat out wrong, sweetheart.

And you're forgetting we had a worse group the first time around. Better players allow for more DPS, thus even faster kill times. The gap would have been even wider with a competent group. Regardless, your own argument is rooted in egregiousness. No one is saying healer DPS is required, but simply pointing out overhealing is bad. It's no different than DPS who refuse to use Diversion.

.... on Normal Sigmascape that's not even Kefka.

Is that a challenge?

And I'm saying the OP is perhaps jumping on a matter that's not really That big of an issue. I've yet to see a single healer that stands around and does nothing but spam heals on people who are full. I've not seen that a single time, so I wonder just how widespread this REALLY is.

And people have already answered this. It develops bad habits, which are then taken into harder content where this people suddenly cry about being criticised. Furthermore, you may not have seen zero DPS healers, but I have; multiple times. Back in Heavensward, I started putting them to the test by leaving them to solo healer while I went full Cleric with sporadic healing when needed. It was amazing how many of this "I just want to heal" healers couldn't handle actually having to do more than stand around and toss a heal every minute.

[HyoMinPark]

A whole 60 seconds.

That's not far from the 15-45 that I figured with the napkin math. *shrug*

I’ve noticed that you keep increasing that time figure of yours. It started out as 10 seconds in your first post concerning this:

Wow, the boss takes 10 seconds later to kill, woooo.

And then moved to 30, then to 60/30 per healer. Now it’s 15~45 seconds. The run was also a full minute and 20 seconds faster than the run where there was no healer DPS contribution. And what you fail to realize is that the DPS in the group that took longer was better than the run where we actually contributed to raid damage. If we had had the same party members as the first group, the 1:20 would probably be closer to 2 minutes. Far more signifcant than your ever-changing prediction from your “napkin math”.

I think people are grossly misunderstanding my position here.

We’re just going off your posts where you said healer DPS is insignificant:

But yet still insignificant as to the actual kill speed of the entire battle, if you were to cut it in half, or remove it entirely.

You were the one who said it wouldn’t matter if healer DPS was removed entirely. A run taking 80 seconds longer with better damage dealers proved you wrong there. A run where healers contributed 22% of the total damage of the raid proved you wrong. And you’re just moving the goalposts with this:

Normal Sigmascape that’s not even Kefka.

You never said anything about how it has to be specifically V8N to make a difference. You just said “single-target 8-man bosses”.


I told you that you were more than welcome to message me on Discord if you wanted to continue this debate. Or maybe make your own thread rather than hijack one that was never about healer DPS, but blatant overhealing. You were the one who brought up healer DPS in this thread, and now people are contesting your claims.

[Maeka]

@BourneEndeavor: I said "spot on" in comparison to the total time.

If someone said "It's about 2 gallons of fuel to get from A to B" and someone else goes "No, you're wrong, it's 3 gallons of fuel." and the first person goes "I was close!"...

If you were driving a motorcycle with a 5gallon tank then yeah. Person A is wrong.
If you're driving a car that has an 18 gallon tank, then yeah, 2 or 3 gallons, roughly same thing.

As far as it being "Ever Changing", I was changing it to account for different numbers thrown around "It's 2k. No, sometimes it's 2.5k. DPS can do upwards of 6k!" etc etc.

[Ruf]

You do realize that the data on FFLogs is from human beings, right? The data are recordings of how everyone in a party does in an instance, then it’s uploaded to the website by the people in that run.

Also, Super Ego, you’re not gonna win against Hyo.

Win what exactly? keep up the line ppl I'm here, cant miss me.

Actually your opinion does claim you are a noob with a super ego. Maybe don’t act like an idiot and people wouldn’t say you’re a new healer. You must really like trying to defend yourself when everyone says you’re wrong, should have just quit while you were ahead.



Ps. You only think savage is crap because you suck at it super ego.

No I think savage is crap because its crap,theres a difference right there.Whats the next name you'll call me? I saw super ego, noob,you asked me if I was a god while quite obviously ppl claim to be greater than me in this thread so I must not quite be there as they all do kefka & savages (btw I hate kefka & no not only in this game)so whats next?
Super zero?! P.s: Performances are only half the battle, 25% can be attributes to your components & internet speed, please refer to ___> http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ag-disconnects & other issues threads, so 50 +25 that leaves 25% of knowledge,Your maths are wrong, all of them.

15-30 seconds. Wow. whoop-dee-doo.

A whole 60 seconds.

Wow. whoop-dee-doo.

If you don't want to improve or become a better player, you can say so.

If you want to play a game that's designed around extremely high healing uptime, World of Warcraft is designed with that in mind and would prove more fun for that mindset. FFXIV isn't set up that way.

People who overheal constantly and do 0 damage contribution aren't good players in this game. That's just a fact. Yeah, bad play can get you through normal. A 1.5k DPS SAM can get you through normal. But it doesn't mean you know what you're doing or have an authority to claim as such.

Additionally, overhealing is generating stupid amounts of enmity that doesn't need to exist. You're making it actively harder on your other party members and forcing them to carry your missing contribution.

Enmity control & overhealing are two different things,as others mentioned already Ast get enmity minus vs other healers + you also have access to lucid dreaming.

60 seconds is an entire phase, bypassing dozens of mechanics that could cause potential wipes on any of the savage floors, in addition to ultimate. Also adds up when you're farming casual content.

Bypassing mechanics "isn't" e v e r y t h i n g

And from some replies in this thread, there are a lot of people who think overhealing and doing nothing else is absolutely optimal

I can claim for sure I never mentioned doing nothing else myself, I clearly stated several times that I do everything else on top of it so that clearly isn't me.

No one is saying healer DPS is required, but simply pointing out overhealing is bad. It's no different than DPS who refuse to use Diversion.
It develops bad habits,

That is a poor argument because you are generalizing on the fact that ppl develop bad habits while that doesn't mean some players do not overheal properly, what you are saying is basically because you see a mass of players doing one thing & doing a poor job at it,because "habit' you are claiming that there is no one that is actually doing the same method but upon a higher lvl of quality thus occurring success in a way if not in any better ways, get your head out of the tunnel vision.

Having a straight opinion on something you've never actually done make it be a poor argument.

What tells you I have never done a savage fight? this is a blind & invalid statement as while I havnt tryed the current end game savages I have tried some of the old savages before, to the opposite of a lot of players here I havnt pinpointed a single specific battle as some claims in here . You do not know if I have or not & that belongs to me specially as like adding what I have tried & what not could fuel others a little bit more...

[MoroMurasaki]

Win what exactly? keep up the line ppl I'm here, cant miss me.

No I think savage is crap because its crap theres a difference right there.

P.s: Performances are only half the battle, 25% can be attributes to your components & internet speed, please refer to ___> http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ag-disconnects & other issues threads, so 50 +25 that leaves 25% of knowledge,Your maths are wrong, all of them.

This just might be the least reasonable thing ever posted on the forums.

If you aren't a troll I feel really, really bad for you.