Disembowel: Please Fix this Mess

[DaulBan]

Look over this log.

This post was made a while ago but just to clarify: The TA gain is an rDPS of 842. It's a sum of the gain each individual person got. Dividing it by the number of players is just giving and average rDPS/Player number, which isn't actually relevant. Even if you just doubled the piercing gain from having the SMN on MCH it still wouldn't quite touch TA in terms of raid dps gain unless somehow MCH made less use of TA windows (which doesn't make sense because that's their wildfire).

[HyoMinPark]

This post was made a while ago but just to clarify: The TA gain is an rDPS of 842. It's a sum of the gain each individual person got. Dividing it by the number of players is just giving and average rDPS/Player number, which isn't actually relevant. Even if you just doubled the piercing gain from having the SMN on MCH it still wouldn't quite touch TA in terms of raid dps gain unless somehow MCH made less use of TA windows (which doesn't make sense because that's their wildfire).

I think you missed the point of the conversation—it was to show how skewed Disembowel is compared to other rBuffs. There is no rBuff outside of a crapton of single-target Balances that will give ~300 DPS freely to 1 player like Disembowel does to BRD/MCH, not even TA. Sure it gives 842 to 7 people; none of them gain ~300 DPS from it.

[GunksFoy]

This may not have helped the problem, but to diversify a bit, I really think they should have made Machinist deal blunt damage like many people speculated they would when it was announced. That way Dragoon wouldn't have the monopoly on synergy. At least Monk/Mch would be competitive with Dragoon/Bard. However, no matter how any of this shakes out, there will always be a meta. It'll just be different if Dragoon loses Disembowel.

[Remedi]

I think you missed the point of the conversation—it was to show how skewed Disembowel is compared to other rBuffs. There is no rBuff outside of a crapton of single-target Balances that will give ~300 DPS freely to 1 player like Disembowel does to BRD/MCH, not even TA. Sure it gives 842 to 7 people; none of them gain ~300 DPS from it.

Think he meant that taking rdps of TA and just dividing it by 7 is not an exact rapresentative of the rdps it provides since the rdps given by the app is a sum of all the rdps provided which because each ppl do a different quantity of dps it means that they also gain a different quantity of rpds.

[DaulBan]

-snip-

Aaah, I see, my mistake.

[Aomine1992]

Just deleting, it could open up some stuff in my opinion, people wouldn't just lock drg spots opening up things for MNK which is without a doubt your top melee dps class and some SAMs even if they arnt liked lol

It's kind of weird for casters, it's not often but sometimes I will see only phys range dps spots with no casters for speed runs or parse runs but I wish dps spots would be shaken up some or our new dps won't fit anywhere either...SE do it now before everyone that raids is a BRD/MCH/DRG/NIN and everyone else is not desired

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This may not have helped the problem, but to diversify a bit, I really think they should have made Machinist deal blunt damage like many people speculated they would when it was announced. That way Dragoon wouldn't have the monopoly on synergy. At least Monk/Mch would be competitive with Dragoon/Bard. However, no matter how any of this shakes out, there will always be a meta. It'll just be different if Dragoon loses Disembowel.

I initially thought the same, however Machinist would die off due to its existing issues outside Piercing, and Monk not being meta. Regardless, the goal should never be make non-meta jobs meta. That only flips the problem elsewhere. What needs to happen is for each job to be close enough it's negligible. While the loss of Trick Attack sucks, Monk is inching closer and closer to be able to swap out with them because Brotherhood's decent. Dark Knight may still be behind Warrior and Paladin, but the recent changes have helped move it closer a little. The healers were in a decent spot, though it looks like Astro's buff has caused an imbalance.

This is also why come 5.0, I want one-dimensional jobs gone. Give utility to Samurai, Black Mage and maybe White Mage. And lets be done with this jiggling act they haven't figured out going on four years now.

Just deleting, it could open up some stuff in my opinion, people wouldn't just lock drg spots opening up things for MNK which is without a doubt your top melee dps class and some SAMs even if they arnt liked lol

Absolutely. Potency would need to increase across the board for Dragoon. Battle Litany could also come down to a 120 or 90 cooldown, which all but compensates for the loss.

[Remedi]

Ithink we need to wait prog to see if AST has been overbuffed. The fixes they got didn't really change anything since they were already the go to pick for speed runs ans frankly no1 was ever picking WHM up for it's contribution to the overall dps

[Wayfinder3]

Ithink we need to wait prog to see if AST has been overbuffed. The fixes they got didn't really change anything since they were already the go to pick for speed runs ans frankly no1 was ever picking WHM up for it's contribution to the overall dps

Still though, i don't think it's very healthy for AST and WHM to be near equal in pdps and AST to excel in raid dps. this is essentially saying RDM is perfectly fine being a prog monkey. not to mention AST isn't terrible for progression, whm is just better. Now we're going to see more casual/midcore groups sheep ast even harder since whm was very viable even post progression if you we'ren't speed killing. I think whm needs to be brought up above the other 2 healers so that it's excess healing isn't the only reason to bring it. AST is also now the most mobile healer as they don't lose malefics or have to use a weaker skill to transition across the battlefield which is very powerful. top 1% or not, this job is kinda overtuned alongside scholar.

Saying that WHM wasn't in the healer meta in the first palce so AST getting better shouldn't matter is silly. This would be like putting disembowel back at 10&, the meta won't change, SAM/MNK/SMN/BLM/RDM just looks even worse and the Gap gets wider. we want to close the gap not make it bigger

[Remedi]

True, but AST had real MP problems which lightspeed should've fixed sorta. Consider the only dps buffs they got ar from beign able to cast while moving and not clipping with cards anymore. Otherwise their numbers of casts haven't changed.