According to FFLogs, AST pDPS >= WHM pDPS in 4.3

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Also, I feel you are very optimistic. If AST continues to have as much pDPS as WHM on top of their buffs, and being able to heal everything just fine, WHM will be left out eventually. Because why take them if you have someone who can do the same with some extra?

Oh trust me, I know exactly where this road with WHM is heading. We've dealt with this exact same issue in HW. I'm being a bit more optimistic this time around because I'm hoping SE will notice they unintentionally overbuffed AST.
If nothing changes before the next raid tier, I am afraid where we'll be in the raid scene...

I'm afraid we're about to go from a strong raid asset to simply viable outside of progression...

[Ghishlain]

If the DPS data keeps trending like they do now, 4.4 would be a good opportunity for S-E to re-evaluate how they want WHM to fit into the healer dynamic. Making changes to SotL to help boost WHMs identity and rebalance the healers again. I feel S-E hasn't touched SotL too much because of the current delicate balance. If the data continues to trend that AST is getting ahead on the pDPS level, this would be a good opportunity to put WHM back in line with the other healers via kit modifications.

I'd also like to remind everyone who's poking at this thread that the DPS values listed show the raw contribution of each job and aren't necessarily indicative of the absolute pDPS each healer brings. The DPS value listed is both a combination of their pDPS and the bonus rDPS they get from other jobs. Assuming all other aspects of the group composition and skill are equal, WHM is actually at a disadvantage when looking at these statistics because they can only gain DPS from the off healer's buffs, where as AST and SCH can potentially both double dip on DPS buffs if the composition is AST/SCH. This will skew results unfavorable towards WHM. IE, AST gains +400 DPS from both Chain Stratagem and Balance over a course of a fight but WHM only gains +200 for either Chain Stratagem or Balance, thus pushing WHMs pDPS value higher than shown. It's impossible to determine each jobs absolute pDPS because nothing works in a vacuum in this game.

WHM was nerfed VERY often, as proven to you beneath you.

If you're basing this off of Tint's list from earlier, I'm mostly in agreement with Miste's response to the whole thing.

The only unjustified nerf I feel would be the loss of Divine Seal and the gain of Largesse in Cross Role. And even then, WHM has such a wide myriad of healing tools that a healing magic potency buff would lose some effectiveness.

The holy nerf was justified since WHM would be the king/queen of all AoE damage if it maintained the 240 potency.

Stoneskin loss wasn't much of a loss in my mind just because there were extremely few instances where using Stoneskin was better than using Cure II. Especially since WHM got a better Stoneskin in the form of Divine Benison (which got buffed mid expansion, I might add), and also the loss of Stoneskin was mitigated in some respect because Weakness doesn't lower Vitality anymore and thus the eHP shield isn't as necessary now to help keep weakened players alive.

The three "nerfs" above would be the only things I would consider nerfs and even then I feel either they're justified or the changes weren't high impact to the WHM kit overall.

[loreleidiangelo]

Ha, when they first listed these changes it was kind of funny to see a few of my non-healer friends saying, "oh, it was just to solve clipping, it probably won't make much difference at all because the recast timer stays the same". Like, having a half-cast spell with non-DPS-gimping Lightspeed wouldn't be a pretty big buff to AST DPS, since most healer DPS restrictions have to do with managing to get spells off during high mobility/mechanics periods haha. To say nothing of extending Lightspeed and Cleric Stance on yourself to get even more DPS while relieving some mana crunch.

I honestly have no idea why this was the solution SE chose. Did clipping really bother most of the healers here? Sure, it didn't exactly "feel" elegant, but it was a hair-second delay for me, hardly worth a 1-second cast time decrease to our primary DPS spell. I would have rather they just split Combust and Combust II apart again, and kept Combust II instant-cast to solve any Draw shenanigans.

[Risvertasashi]

I feel S-E hasn't touched SotL too much because of the current delicate balance.

Just on this in particular... it makes me wish SE simply hadn't touched healer balance. SCH+AST was "meta" for parse runs/high end groups, but WHM still used a lot, especially in progression. It was not a terrible place to be, balance wise.

And these changes, once more, fail to give SCH any competition at all. Instead threatening only WHM, as usual...

[Elamys]

I honestly have no idea why this was the solution SE chose. Did clipping really bother most of the healers here? Sure, it didn't exactly "feel" elegant, but it was a hair-second delay for me, hardly worth a 1-second cast time decrease to our primary DPS spell. I would have rather they just split Combust and Combust II apart again, and kept Combust II instant-cast to solve any Draw shenanigans.

In all actuality, this change with Malefic feels like the less elegant solution. While I get that it's certainly strong, it just feels clunky to play.

[loreleidiangelo]

In all actuality, this change with Malefic feels like the less elegant solution. While I get that it's certainly strong, it just feels clunky to play.

I feel the same way, tbh. I have increased flexibility with maximizing damage uptime but it feels really jarring to have a shortcast DPS move with the same GCD as everything else. I'm sure I'll get used to it in time, but I'd still rather have two instant cast DoTs instead. Would make doing DPS as an Astro at least a LITTLE less...mind-numbing.

[Caduagm]

Nobody talks about SCH because AST doesn't threaten SCH in any way, shape, or form. Also, you got the best crit buff in the game. You got nothing to complain in this regard.

You probably didn't understand my point.
I'm saying how people (mostly WHM mains) utterly complain about AST and don't say a word about Scholar.
Since the addition of Miasma 2, SCH is on the same level than WHM, while it shouldn't, considering the amount of utility the job brings on its kit.
WHM isn't that essential for progress anymore. Scholar is.
Open your eyes. It's not only AST who needs nerfs.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

.
Open your eyes. It's not only AST who needs nerfs.

I'm repeating myself here, but a lot of people have given up on SCH ever being balanced. It's in a class of it's own at this point. The one time it was doing slightly bad, SE buffed it up immediately without hesitation and have done so in every patch in SB so far whether it needed it or not.

For better or worse, AST is the only job we can hope to have a chance at matching because we're not too far from them. Since SCH is an indisputable spot in any static raid spot, it's usually just WHM vs Diu AST, which is why you'll see most WHM specifically mentioning AST when talking about balance. They're all we're comparable to.
It's not that we think SCH is balanced and fine where it is, it's just a losing battle complaining about them.

Edit: I use the word we a lot, but this is just my opinion really. Obviously it would be nice for SCH to step down a bit and give everyone else a chance, but that's just not happening.

[Elamys]

I feel the same way, tbh. I have increased flexibility with maximizing damage uptime but it feels really jarring to have a shortcast DPS move with the same GCD as everything else. I'm sure I'll get used to it in time, but I'd still rather have two instant cast DoTs instead. Would make doing DPS as an Astro at least a LITTLE less...mind-numbing.

It took me longer than I would like to admit to realize why I couldn't queue casts with it anymore. And now many times I find myself sitting there hammering the key and then there ends up being a little pause that pushes everything back. So annoying x.x

[Miste]

The Malefic III cast is awesome since I can actually weave oGCDs after the cast. It takes a bit of getting used to because the GCD is the same, but it is great.