And so it begins again

[Exiled_Tonberry]

The WHM and lilies threads, I actually made them with my alt account and then made more to make it look like people agree with me.

I'm ashamed.

The difference in those threads and this thread is that we're not claiming people are stringing WHMs up and tossing them out of raids.
I think anyone who plays WHM can agree that they need some help, and that lilies is very bad and so on.
What you should have done is made a thread discussing the recent AST buffs and how they're now creeping up on WHM pDPS, not claim WHMs are being locked out of PF.

[Ghishlain]

The happy (non-WHM main) minority are here saying WHM feels fine, the unhappy majority are not a part of the forum.

People still argue WHM is fine when WHM mains know there's a lot of room for improvement.

I was ignoring the first instance where you passive aggressively stated that any person who says WHM is fine is a non-WHM main. However, you continually seem to want to state that anyone who deems "WHM is fine" is a "non-WHM-main". This repeated sentiment to any dissenting opinion towards your opinion shows arrogance. It undermines your position further when you also consider that you haven't shown any evidence to corroborate your initial opening sentence against an overwhelming mountain of opposing opinion and evidence.

There are at least three posters in this thread who I could count as a WHM-main that have expressed opinions that differ from yours. I count myself as a WHM-main as well. I am of the particular sub faction that WHM is mostly fine and have disagreed with these other WHM-mains in the past over our differing opinions about the state of WHM. I think it's telling when we all are of the same opinion that you're over blowing the situation.

At this point in time, if you wanted to save face, you should be more constructive with your remarks. Being passive aggressive and snotty is getting you no where and when you do pose a genuine concern regarding WHM, it will most likely not be well received due to your previous actions. Just some food for thought for you.

[Sebazy]

4.0 WHM was a disappointing hot mess, despite being told we were jumping the gun worrying about it, and they acknowledged that by removing the ridiculous Cure lily proc. We're still left with a useless job gauge, though.

You do remember the state that SCH was left in for 4.0 right? AST out mitigated it and was actually the better savage progression choice alongside WHM much to the surprise of many. SCH was also flat out trash for dungeons if you cared about your DPS. Even AST crucified it at AoE out of the gate. Yes WHM's Lily was particularly pointless and PI mk1 would have been useful for about 3 fights ever, but whilst it was disappointing, it wasn't a mess. It's core kit and big cooldowns were (and still are) in the best shape that they've ever been.

Your view is akin to someone calling HW SCH trash because they couldn't find any use for Dissipation. One broken subset or ability doesn't always ruin the job as a whole.

[Lunaxia]

snip

That person did not agree with WHM needing help, hence my reply.

Such a thread already exists. I experienced something else, so I made this one.

wat.

You've picked one example where I gave a hypothetical argument to show the inconsistency in someone's reasoning, and another where I was commenting on WHM as a whole. There are multiple WHMs in this thread - there is a WHM above you - who agree WHM needs improvement, that WHM feels unstable, even while disagreeing with my original post. There are multiple threads - see the lily thread and the chicken thread recently - on this, and it's been a common sentiment that "we're ok" but we're not on equal standing with what the other healers can do for a while now. If it makes me arrogant/ snotty/ passive-aggressive to think WHM mains know more about the nature of their job than those who don't, then I plead guilty. You think WHM is fine? I'm happy for you. Enjoy the job.

If you think being taken seriously on this forum is a concern of mine at this point, you've not been paying much attention.

snip

I do. There were several messes, SCH very much among them. But SCH was fixed, and it's back to where it was before. WHM lost some of the gimp on its job gauge, and it's back to where it was before, when it needed more.

SCH has more to offer in terms of mitigation and utility to compensate for a useless skill. WHM needed a boost anyway, something to offer beside "brute force" and what we got was very underwhelming and mostly kind of pointless.

[Maeka]

Look I've said in this thread already that I agree WHMs are not perfect and yes, the Lillies system needs help. Right now, we're just ignoring the Lily meter altogether and that should not be happening. We are supposed to care about Lillies, but we don't.

Yes, OBVIOUSLY that's a bad thing, and OBVIOUSLY the class needs some fixing.

But....

BUT....

This thread isn't about Lillies. This thread isn't about what abilities work well, and what abilities do not.

This entire thread is about WHMs supposedly being locked out of PF on an Extreme Primal (lol..) which NUMEROUS people have shown screenshots to the contrary and you've yet to provide a single one that supports your point of view.

[Elamys]

Wow, this thread is a trainwreck. Give it up.

If you think being taken seriously on this forum is a concern of mine at this point, you've not been paying much attention.

If you don't care about being taken seriously on this forum then please stop posting and making topics like this so that we can spend our time discussing the actual problems and solutions WHM has.

[Ceasaria]

I did Ultimate with AST (1%) and WHM (clear), and I can say it's far more easier to do this type of fight with WHM than with AST.
Why ?
- AST require more mental load because of : the cards system (you need to know perfectly how to deal quickly with cards depending of the situation), plan Earthly Star 10-20 (or 30 sec with CO) in advance. More cast per minute (mental load).
- Mana management : if it's not managed well or too much death, you can't continu the fight.
- Healing must be accurate, efficient and well planned. Cure III or Benediction is not here to save him and the group in emergency.
With the recents changes to AST, the real benefit he will have now is his mobility, that's all.

So, I don't see again the problem. WHM is similar to RDM, more safety to the group. If you are not for that, change your job.
If you fear WHM will disappear of the screen, it won't.

[Maeka]

RE:Ceasaria: Yeah, when crap hits the fan... I don't think that I would feel comfortable with anything but WHM. I'm currently leveling SCH and I've gotten it up to Lv40 so far and I'm already finding myself missing some WHM features, like... you know, Medica. That "in 3 seconds I refill 50% of everybody's health" button. There's Succor but it just doesn't heal as much, and I have to rely on my faerie to do the other part of the healing.

Or how about "No Cure II" and no "Free Cure II Mechanic"? Instead I got Physick and Adloquium. I know that eventually I will get Lustrate but I don't have it yet (I forget what level that is, it might be 40 and I just haven't done the quest yet?). Cure II is basically a full refill at Lv40, and I loved being able to dump a huge heal on somebody that was just standing in stupid a moment ago, AND do it for free under the right conditions. I kinda miss that mechanic, you know? The free Cure II? Because yanno, we never get to use Cure 1 at Lv70 content.

I'm already starting to see the differences between SCH and WHM, and hey I'm not trying to bash on SCH here, it's a very different healer for a different purpose, but never in a million years would I say it is superior to WHM, nor would I say the opposite. I'm a more cautious sort of player when it comes to healing, and it is my personal preference to have the extra safety nets that WHM has to offer. It's easy, and occupies a low amount of mental work which frees up more of my concentration to dealing with mechanics and avoiding AoEs, something I think I would struggle with, the more I hear about AST (which I've yet to unlock). AST sounds like something that's going to be complicated enough that I will probably have trouble with it unless I'm very familiar with the content.

I'm not worried about WHM at all. Unless, of course, if there was ever a day that it gets the SAM treatment where they get kicked out of groups just for being one (at least if the rumors are actually true; I've never attempted to verify because I don't typically DPS in groups; I hate waiting on long queues). But we are nowhere near that point, so I think things are fine right now. Now, again, I don't think the class is perfect. It has flaws, but yet it still performs more than good enough.

[Lastelli]

RE:Ceasaria: Yeah, when crap hits the fan... I don't think that I would feel comfortable with anything but WHM. I'm currently leveling SCH and I've gotten it up to Lv40 so far and I'm already finding myself missing some WHM features, like... you know, Medica.

Give it time. By the time you hit 60 with sch, you'll realize how insanely powerful the job is.

[Duskane]

i wish people would stop complaining about this "meta" that a extremely small minority actually follow,
understandable people if your job is lacking or has a clunky play style like RDM,SAM or DRK and you want it to get better
or if you actually speed kill but most the time people who Speedkill they don't care about the class at all they just move on to the next best thing (i saw so much more paladins and much less Wars during start of stormblood)
but how people want groups made is just personal preference.