[Lighthouse Spoilers] Can we please stop with the stupid fetch quests?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Who said anything about the Warrior of Light needing to be fawned over? You can make seemingly menial tasks purposeful without turning them into generic fetch quest drivel. While no, the quest does not take long, it retreads one of the more reviled quest chains from ARR and even mocks the player by allowing an opt out choice yet immediately employs the "But Thou Must" trope. Make this quest entirely optional and no one cares. Why can't I simply progress the Ivalice story when this side quest literally impacts nothing? Had that NPC been foreshadowed earlier and we simply talked to him, this quest may have felt better. As it stands, they weren't doing anything except attempting a thinly veiled joke that didn't land.

I'm with you Theodric. It's important to remember that player priorities on patch launch differ from player expectations overall. Like during the day of, you're all eager to get into the content because it's shiny and new and you've been waiting a few months for it, so you have peopel demanding a condensed story and minimal obstruction to jumping in, but in the long-term I feel much more appreciative of a questline that emphasizes worldbuilding and character interaction than "talk to one NPC, talk to another NPC boom, quest done."

People are not complaining about the Ivalice plot itself, but the pointless detour that occurred during it. I rather like FFXIV's retelling yet this quest pulled me out, partly because it comes out of nowhere and partly because I despise The Company of Heroes quest chain. Either way, I was less engaged from that moment onward. Fortunately, Ridorano proved an excellent raid that pulled me back in. Regardless, what worldbuilding happened whilst we collected a bottle of wine, Hancock pulling a deus ex machina and conning some rich idiot into believing it. The Dalmascan NPC served little beyond a plot device since the actual "story" had nothing to do with him and focused on the wine.

[Theodric]

It wasn't a meaningless fetch quest, though. It brought substantial world building in the form of referencing Ivalice and tying FFXIV to FFXIV's version of Ivalice. If people truly cared about the Ivalice story, then they'd appreciate even the minor references. Though many of those complaining didn't pick up on the references or claim they've never played the games in the first place. That's fine - but when the entire thing is a love letter to fans of Ivalice then maybe they should sit back and let those who are the target audience soak up the full experience without raining on the parade.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It wasn't a meaningless fetch quest, though. It brought substantial world building in the form of referencing Ivalice and tying FFXIV to FFXIV's version of Ivalice. If people truly cared about the Ivalice story, then they'd appreciate even the minor references. Though many of those complaining didn't pick up on the references or claim they've never played the games in the first place. That's fine - but when the entire thing is a love letter to fans of Ivalice then maybe they should sit back and let those who are the target audience soak up the full experience without raining on the parade.

Yes, it was. The NPC in question had only a fleeting mention in an otherwise pointless exertion. Had they made him more relevant, I might agree. Instead, the actual cut scenes and side plot were about a wine bottle. Regardless, you know how to best solve this problem? Instead of a dumb "But Thou Must" 'choice,' let people who select that option progress onward to Ridorano while everyone else can go ahead to fetch wine.

Being a fan does not mean you care about every minute detail. I adore the Mass Effect universe yet there are a handful of questlines I am equally critical of for being essentially pointless. Having a reference does not make a poorly written side story necessarily better.

[Alleo]

It wasn't a meaningless fetch quest, though. It brought substantial world building in the form of referencing Ivalice and tying FFXIV to FFXIV's version of Ivalice.

Again you could have put these two little references into a smaller quest. Also I would dare to say that the name of a wine being a homage to another game is not world building, especially not a substantial one, only fanservice to those that like the other game and those have already a huge love letter thanks to a whole raid. Getting Drest on board of the group together with the wine, get more infos from him and the others and finally give him the chance of a new life, that would have been substanial.

I mean if one name of a wine and the origin of one small NPC is substanial for world building, what exactly is the minium?

[Raven2014]

It wasn't a meaningless fetch quest, though. It brought substantial world building in the form of referencing Ivalice and tying FFXIV to FFXIV's version of Ivalice. If people truly cared about the Ivalice story ... .

Substantial? That's a bit of a hyperbole. Putting in some 'vague' reference in there does not change from the fact that this quest is:

- Poorly written.
- Annoying.
- Out of context within the game. This is to emphasized it does not matter whether the player get the reference outside the 4th wall or not, it makes absolutely ZERO sense within the game setting itself for reasons stated.
- It repeatedly lampshade the player.

There are many thing 'wrong' with this quest beyond the fact that it is just another fetch quest or how long/short it is. Especially the last point. Even before knowing what it entails, I already picked the decline option because I feel it's so out of context, and of course the game just "lol suck to be you, you have to do it anyway." Then after the quest is complete, 2 of main NPCs do it again "you to have go through all that AGAIN, suck to be you ain't it". And as many had said, the writers had been doing this SO MANY TIMEs. Any novelty or humor points had long since lost, and I can't take it as nothing else but a show of disrespect.

Again, put it some vague/obscure reference for the hardcore fans doesn't excuse how poorly it was executed even if the intention is right. Can the same reference be made in a much more meaningful manner? I bet it can. Put it this way, every writers, both the good and the bad ones will always want to delivery powerful scene. The difference is, a good writer can do that WITHOUT relying on something extreme like "oh let just kill someone", whether the bad writers only know to deliver a powerful scene by killing someone. Yes the good writer can have someone die to amplify the affect, but they will be no mean rely on it. So even if everything you said is to be true, this quest is still bad, period.

but when the entire thing is a love letter to fans of Ivalice then maybe they should sit back and let those who are the target audience soak up the full experience without raining on the parade.

Then I would ask you to think about players like me who prefer to be immersive IN THIS GAME without having to be rubbed in the face with such a bad design quests, and doing so in such a disrespectful manner.

[FelixDaCat]

Can you really call any video game that has a subsequent "Greatest Hits" release a flop, though? Like, it's literally in the name, lol.

I think you can have a game that was slow to sell be classed as a flop, but then a year or so after launch it starts to sell enough, or gains a cult following big enough to support any further releases?

Some games don't do well until they are finally being sold as a budget title, which then tempts enough people for it to start shifting a serious number of copies.

[Theodric]

Then I would ask you to think about players like me who prefer to be immersive IN THIS GAME without having to be rubbed in the face with such a bad design quests, and doing so in such a disrespectful manner.

It wasn't 'disrespectful'. If it inspires such anger and frustration then might I suggest finding another game to play? It's really being blown out of proportion. Once you're done with the quest - which takes a matter of minutes - the raid is unlocked...and then when you've completed it you're not getting any new raid content for a handful of months. It makes sense, then, to take your time and not rush as quickly as possible.

It is, after all, an RPG. Perhaps some 'instant unlock' potions can be sold on the Mog Station for people such as yourself, though?

[Fyce]

I don't think Shamani's blindness had anything to do with it really... except that we couldn't glance at each other and shrug exasperatedly. (If you talk to him afterwards he makes dry humour of it, AND basically tells us to go with the ridiculous plan. "I saw nothing. Nothing at all.") I didn't get any impression that we're betraying his trust in the end - I thought we'd both just given up and were going with the bizarreness of it.

Okay, after checking on xivdb and with google translate, it seems that Shamani's reaction is very different depending on the language you're playing in:

- In japanese, at first he tries to prevent it and calls it a scam, but in the end (if you talk to him after the cutscene) he says to the WoL to decide if s/he thinks it's worth it or not to take the bottle to Gegeruju, but he don't recommand it.

- In english and german, he just speak about it being "unjust" and that "as a maker of wine, I cannot allow it!". But that's almost nothing compared to what he says in french. And, of course, even if he sighs when you talk to him after the cutscene, you get that dark humor of him saying "I saw nothing", which is absolutly not present in FR or JP.

- In french, like in JP, he calls it a scam. But he goes way beyond this, saying that act is "blasphemous" against such "divine beverage" that he loves. He absolutly doesn't want to participate in that scheme. He says to the WoL that if s/he wants to take that atrocious wine (very pejorative french term is used to qualify the wine, the complete opposite of what he just called a "divine beverage") s/he will have to take full responsability for it. His tone and language shows how passionate he is about wine and what the WoL and Hancock are doing is deeply wrong and disrespectful for the wine itself.

Since I play in french, I can assure you that I felt like a total a**h*le after that scene. That being said, all kudos to the localization team for turning things this way, as wine is of quite high a cultural importance in France, obviously.
But now I see why others might not have felt this scene to be so hard to deal with moraly.

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light already consorts with pirates, anyway - who make no secret that they intend to take their 'Ruby Tithe' through force, if necessary. A scam, then, is very much in line with the sort of shadiness that the Warrior of Light indulges in from time to time.

[alimdia]

It wasn't 'disrespectful'. If it inspires such anger and frustration then might I suggest finding another game to play? It's really being blown out of proportion. Once you're done with the quest - which takes a matter of minutes - the raid is unlocked...and then when you've completed it you're not getting any new raid content for a handful of months. It makes sense, then, to take your time and not rush as quickly as possible.

It is, after all, an RPG. Perhaps some 'instant unlock' potions can be sold on the Mog Station for people such as yourself, though?

Stop with the hyperboles, not wanting a fetch quest doesn't mean people want instant unlock, nor it means people should play a different game. If that fetch quest was made a separate side quest you would have got your obscure reference and no one would have had to suffer through a poorly done fetch quest, that's what people are asking for here.